England squad discussion

[grecian]

Squad Selector | FIFA World Cup 2014 | Sky Sports

Everyone would take Lampard, right?

I didn't want Smalling but the lack of quality there is pretty brutal.

Not only would I not take him, I'd be fuming when he goes, I'm not sure this coming off the bench to make an impact thing, some have stated, is a thing. He's a starter if anything, not a sub. We, for once, have so many talented options in mid-field who could turn a game with skill, pace or sheer brilliance, that picking a clearly run-down player to take a place would/will be horrid.

I'm not interested in the Flanagan debate but Henderson and Allen are both better than Jack Wilshere.

Nah ridiculous the Wilshere back-lash has gone far to far. He's still technically brilliant, and with an engine and tenacity which makes him valuable to any team. Having said that at the moment Henderson probably more effective, but your having a laugh with Joe Allen, and I quite rate him.

 

[Pothas]

Agree on the Lampard off the bench thing. You would much much rather bring on Barkley or the Oxlade-Chamberlain.

 

[sledger]

Lampard has probably never really been the kind of player you'd want to bring on as an impact sub come to think of it, even in his younger days.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm not sure if Wilshere will be fit enough. Would be looking at how he performs in the last few games of the season and pre-tournament friendlies.

I'm always amazed at how bad his goalscoring record is. 5 goals in 114 games. He's even less of a goal threat than Tom Cleverley.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah his output has always been terrible. And it's not like he always plays deep either, has played loads as a number 10 the last couple of seasons. Had been improving slightly this season though. Five goals and four assists in the PL and CL this season.

 

[sledger]

I'd have major concerns about Wilshere's fitness to be honest. Is he even likely to play for Arsenal again this season? I've not heard any news about him for a while. I'm not overly fussed about his goalscoring, or lack thereof, mind you. He's just not a prolific goal-scoring player, and I'm not convinced he will ever be.

 

[Cabinet96]

Don't think he's even started running yet. Very much doubt he'll play again for Arsenal. When is the squad deadline?

 

[sledger]

If he doesn't play again for Arsenal this season I'd be wary about picking him. It's not like there's a dearth of options in his position, and England's record of taking partially-crocked/unfit players to major tournaments is pretty suspect to say the least. If they take him knowing he's only 70-80% fit it'd be extremely short-sighted and would probably just lead to him spending the back end of the summer and the start to next season on the treatment table.

 

[Uppercut]

If he doesn't play again for Arsenal this season I'd be wary about picking him. It's not like there's a dearth of options in his position, and England's record of taking partially-crocked/unfit players to major tournaments is pretty suspect to say the least. If they take him knowing he's only 70-80% fit it'd be extremely short-sighted and would probably just lead to him spending the back end of the summer and the start to next season on the treatment table.

Yeah I completely agree. If he'd had a season like Ramsey's then it'd make sense to take a chance, but he's been quite poor anyway.

That's why I think Lampard inevitably washes up into the squad. Assuming Gerrard, Henderson and Barry go, you still probably need one more CM that plays the slightly deeper role at club level. If not Lampard then who? Carrick? Cleverley?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Nah ridiculous the Wilshere back-lash has gone far to far. He's still technically brilliant, and with an engine and tenacity which makes him valuable to any team. Having said that at the moment Henderson probably more effective, but your having a laugh with Joe Allen, and I quite rate him.

Nah I also think Joe Allen is better than Wilshere tbh. Certainly for the time being anyway.

EDIT: I am amazed that some aren't taking Lampard, he gets in the squad comfortably for me. He's not even had a bad season.

 

[Pothas]

Can't really remember him doing anything this season, has never looked terrible but can't think of a game where he has really stood out. If he is great in the dressing room then I would not hate the idea of him going but I don't really see the need for him.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Can't really remember him doing anything this season, has never looked terrible but can't think of a game where he has really stood out. If he is great in the dressing room then I would not hate the idea of him going but I don't really see the need for him.

Hasn't that always been the case with him though? Just basically quietly a pretty effective player. When I've watched him this season I've occasionally thought he's played well and occasionally that he's played OK, and I can't really remember a bad game apart from Basel away I think it was. That's pretty useful for someone who is only going as back-up. He's scored 6 goals in 19 league starts this year from a deep-lying midfield role which is impressive by any standards.

As Uppercut says, who else do you take? Lampard is still absolutely miles above Carrick and Cleverley.

 

[Cevno]

Nah I also think Joe Allen is better than Wilshere tbh. Certainly for the time being anyway.

Wilshere is potential real top level talent who has been hampered by injuries. Allen is a solid player who has improved this season but c'mon..

Who would you buy for United If available at similar price, Wilshere or Allen ?

 

[Tom Halsey]

That's not the argument. The point was that currently Joe Allen is better than Wilshere, whoever has more talent.

EDIT: Will add that although I seem to be in a minority on this one, I've never been convinced Wilshere has any special talent anyway. He obviously had a big injury but he didn't seem particularly impressive to me before then anyway.

 

[grecian]

Hasn't that always been the case with him though? Just basically quietly a pretty effective player. When I've watched him this season I've occasionally thought he's played well and occasionally that he's played OK, and I can't really remember a bad game apart from Basel away I think it was. That's pretty useful for someone who is only going as back-up. He's scored 6 goals in 19 league starts in the league this year from a deep-lying midfield role which is impressive by any standards.

As Uppercut says, who else do you take? Lampard is still absolutely miles above Carrick and Cleverley.

I'd rather take Carrick, would have no problem with not having another deep-lying midfielder in the squad though, it's where Wilshere has played this year, and Milner could do it.

6 goals from Lampard is a pretty poor performance, and clearly shows a downward spiral not a regular starter, not even sure he's been that deep lying when playing. If he isn't going to start he's not an impact player. So I'm not sure what he'd be in the squad for. Surely too, if you take Jones then he covers that position.

I'd rather have Aaron Lennon in the squad.

I've watched Arsenal and 'pool a lot this season, and when fit, wilshere has been better in every facet of the game. I think Jack has had a good season though, so I guess I'm in the minority. Injury is a worry though.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Fat Frank will go; ink it in.

Woy's inherently conservative as a manager and tends to trust players he knows (he brought that Fulham LB with the Polish sounding name with him to Liverpool whose name escapes me, starts with a "K", and he clearly wasn't of the requisite quality) so Lamps is a shoo in.

Mate of mine very nearly convinced me Cashley will travel because of this too. If yer Chavs win the CL (not such a massive stretch) and the little Judas prick plays a full part it's conceivable.

Generally one of our better tournament players and I'm not minded to be fair to him at all.

 

[Tom Halsey]

6 goals from Lampard is a pretty poor performance, and clearly shows a downward spiral not a regular starter, not even sure he's been that deep lying when playing. If he isn't going to start he's not an impact player. So I'm not sure what he'd be in the squad for. Surely too, if you take Jones then he covers that position.

Can't really agree with this at all. It does clearly show a player on the way down, but that's not the point. If he's still better than those supposedly on the way up he should still go. He is 35 now and clearly isn't going to be starting every game. 6 goals in 19 starts is impressive to me, I'm not sure how it wouldn't be impressive really, though I realised the stat may not be exactly correct. He's scored 6 goals in the league and made 19 starts but it is possible that some of those goals came from the bench but I would doubt it.

It is possible that Lampard has played more advanced in games I haven't seen obviously but every time I've seen him he's been one of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1.

 

[sledger]

Glad that all the talk about Andros Townsend has died off.

 

[grecian]

Can't really agree with this at all. It does clearly show a player on the way down, but that's not the point. If he's still better than those supposedly on the way up he should still go. He is 35 now and clearly isn't going to be starting every game. 6 goals in 19 starts is impressive to me, I'm not sure how it wouldn't be impressive really, though I realised the stat may not be exactly correct. He's scored 6 goals in the league and made 19 starts but it is possible that some of those goals came from the bench but I would doubt it.

It is possible that Lampard has played more advanced in games I haven't seen obviously but every time I've seen him he's been one of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1.

Penalties mainly aren't they?

Can't be arsed to check though. Just scoring goals seems to be an odd way of judging them.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Penalties mainly aren't they?

Can't be arsed to check though. Just scoring goals seems to be an odd way of judging them.

Possibly but actually one of the things he has been poor at this year is penalties as I can remember him missing two and off the top of my head can't remember him actually scoring one, though he did get a rebound off one of his misses recently, against Stoke I think.

I'm not judging him off goals, the goals statistic is impressive to me but it's an aside. Disregarding goals would seem to me to be more odd, because goals are evidently important.