Australianism

[BoyBrumby]

What's amazing is that the quote in question was about Bradman's team, not anything recent. There's definitely something in the sporting culture that lends itself to those sorts of results. It's just something that Australia manage more often than other teams.

It's not everything though. Mental toughness won't help much if your team isn't that great, and there will probably be a time in the future where Australia isn't among the best in the world once again, but I think the attitude is always there, and that mental strength does play a role in being able to force an unlikely win or performing in high pressure matches like series deciders and tournament finals.

Yeah, would agree with this. It's why I made the point about the Socceroos having the same attitude. It's a fair guess Oz will never be world champions in the round ball football code (mainly due to competition for talent from three other forms of football), but at their own level (second/third tier) they have a mental resiliance other teams perhaps don't.

[tooextracool]

Not just limited to the cricket side, this ever so annoying never say die attitude. More or less every Aussie sports team (or at least the ones I notice) seems to have it.

The Wallabies and the Kangaroos definitely both have it. In the 2003 union world cup a decent but fairly limited Australian side knocked the All Blacks out in the semi-final and very nearly beat a much better England in the final. We really should've won the game by a couple of scores, but Australia hung in (aided, it must be said by some rather sympathetic referreeing of the scrum) and took the game to extra time.

Similarly with the 2003 league Ashes tour. The Kangaroos were without Joey Johns and Gordon Tallis and were behind in every test in the last ten minutes, but won all three by a score or less.

Even the bleedin' Soccerroos have it; 1-0 down v Japan in the last world cup with about 8 mins left and they win 3-1 and twice behind v Croatia and twice equalise for the point they needed to advance.

Nation of ****s, tbh.

Yeah I think its their never say die attitude and confidence in these sorts of situations that is incomparable. They were comfortably outplayed by England in the 2005 Ashes in the last 4 tests and yet somehow they cam fairly close to winning 3 of them. Quite honestly, that series should never have been as close as it ended up being.

[Jono]

Uppercut and SS, you're ignoring notions of culture in sport.

Sure its okay to look at everything through a black or white scope sometimes, but I think its quite clear that even when Australia don't have the best team, they very very rarely lay down and die. Hell even in last year's T20 there are times when they looked like they may sneak through despite playing like ****, through sheer belief that they can win from any position.

[Uppercut]

Uppercut and SS, you're ignoring notions of culture in sport.

Sure its okay to look at everything through a black or white scope sometimes, but I think its quite clear that even when Australia don't have the best team, they very very rarely lay down and die. Hell even in last year's T20 there are times when they looked like they may sneak through despite playing like ****, through sheer belief that they can win from any position.

Thing is, the notion of a team "giving it their all" and "never saying die" and "showing great spirit" is used so often it's become somewhat devalued. People say it about Bangladesh ffs. So I'm determined not to use it lightly. You have to credit Australia for their phenomenal professionalism, but I don't think the current test side has the rare and special mentality of the previous one- the ability to play the best cricket of their careers when under the most immense pressure.

[Jono]

Its not "when under the most immense pressure" tbh.

It's "when down and out"

They're not necessarily one and the same.

And I think its unfair to not credit easily the one sports team I've seen in my life time that is "never dead until absolutely buried" with the rare quality of having a never say die attitude because its become cliche.

[NUFAN]

The whole Sally Robbins saga pinpointed how important it is for Aussies to never give up when representing our country. She was the most talked about person in Australia at the Greece Olympics because she didn't display 'Australianism' and that just isn't accepted by fans, media etc here.

It's hard to gauge how other countries compare to Australians though.

[Jono]

Haha old Lay Down Sally.

Kind of felt sorry for her, but then I think about her teammates and I dont.

[BoyBrumby]

Just wiki'd her. Weak.

Without wishing to come over all Sam Kekovich, it's un-bloody-Australian.

[Goughy]

I have the greatest respect for Australian sporting culture (obsession with water-based sports excepted). If there is ever an example of culture and environment impacting sport then we can just compare Aus and Eng. Australia is on another level in terms of sport across the board.

TBH, I think if they looked different then people would take the easy way out and lazily blame genetics.

Serious question, is it possble that a reason for this ability to take sport to another level is partially based on the fact that Aus has a pretty small population, very isolated and isnt particularly significant in global affairs and that sport gives the opportunity to make a massive impression internationally? Just a random thought.

[vic_orthdox]

That's a huge factor, IMO, Goughy.

[Jono]

Yeah it definitely is a factor.

[pasag]

It's a bit of a self-fulfilling thing as well though. Teams buy into the myth a bit and leads to their downfall.

[Fusion]

It's a bit of a self-fulfilling thing as well though. Teams buy into the myth a bit and leads to their downfall.

That's certainly true in the case of Pakistan. They expect to lose to Australia. Even when they're in a winning position, they have a mental fear that it will all slip away. Combine that with Australia's "never say die" attitude, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There is simply not another team I admire more in all of sports than Australia when it comes to this fighting spirit.

[Top_Cat]

One downside of the 'Aussie attitude' is that you can never admit when you just don't give a **** or you were outplayed by an equal or inferior team. The Aussies last year in the T20 WC were clearly gearing up for the Ashes series in their selections yet it was all "We're desperate to win/we want to be the best at this form of the game". It's completely obvious the selection of Clarke as T20 captain is a nod to his future Test captaincy. And there have been many ODI series' over the years where, going into it, the public statements have been all "We're here to win" etc. but the selections have about blooding young blokes or giving Shield stalwarts a go. And, of course, going into a series against a weak team, you have to talk them up as being 'better than their results suggest' so you have an out if they steal a win off you i.e. "We didn't play to our potential" rather than "They were better than us." Tend to over-rate ourselves in other sports too; the reaction when beaten by Iran in the soccer years ago was ridiculous.

Some series do matter more than others and it's I reckon it's okay to admit that not to mention that some teams do outplay you sometimes. Hell, everyone knows England are Ashes-centric because they don't hide it. The dishonesty bugs me a bit. That said, I'm open to the argument that the reason OZ do so well is because of this level of denial but it doesn't make the teams popular, that's for sure.

[Burgey]

Yeah, they don't really have it so much in the test side anymore. They quite visibly become disheartened at times and are prone to collapsing all out for under 200.

In LO cricket it's freaky.

*sigh*

This is why you don't get it.

It isn't about the talent, it isn't about the aura, it isn't about having all-timers.

It's a mindest is all. It can be ugly, and it doesn't always work and it sure as hell doesn't make you friends.

Vut it's not meant to. And it's about finding out as much about your own players as it is the opposition.

It's why some blokes, even though they're talented, just won't last within that team environment. Guys like Mattt Elliott for example.

Again, it's not right, but it's there. Guys who are perceived as having a mental chink in their armour will not last in the Australian cricket team. Can't enphasise enough - it's not always right, but it's there and it does in some small way explain the way Aussies approach their sport.