Which team is going to win the 20-20 world cup ?

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

How'd you work that one out?

You had what... McCullum, Bond and Vettori in the IPL who played. Might be missing someone.

They weren't exactly regulars and didn't do too well.

In comparison there were lots of players from Sri Lanka, Australia, South Africa. England had a few (and some who may have been bought but turned it down). West Indies had a similar number to NZ, but one of the better players in Pollard. Obviously India well represented and Pakistan were snubbed but would have had a dozen or so.

Vettori doesn't get played just like most foreign spinners beside Murali don't get a game, the Indian teams need to reinforce their batting and bowling more than their spinners.
Ryder also comes back. Reckon India have the best team with the second tier being Australia/SA and then NZ/SL.
Ryder, McCullum and Guptill should be one of the better top orders in the tournament, Styris and Taylor making a strong middle order with Bond, Mills and Vettori being some of the best bowlers. Southee's death bowling has been pretty impressive of late, not to sure if this will mark his 'coming of age' at this level of the game but I can see him not embarrassing himself at the very least.
Then the likes of two of Oram, NcCullum and Hopkins would round out the team. Hoppy I've never been a fan of but did well against Australia, Oram is a bit past it but offers a bit and NcCullum is a bit of a jack of all trades and master of none IMO, which in T20 cricket can still go a long way.

[Scaly piscine]

Difference is Murali did really well when he played.

McCullum in reality is poor as an international batsman, if you look past the hype. Ryder hasn't played for ages. Guptill? Rubbish T20 record and not done well away from home. One of the better top orders in the tournament? No. Just no.

Styris is a poor international batsman, at any format, these days. Taylor is good but has no form and as a middle order player is more peripheral in T20, reliant on platforms being set. On a good day he'll haul you up to a merely decent score.

Some of the bowlers are good but they're just workmanlike and aren't at their best these days. Vettori to some extent has been superseded by other spinners emerging around the world. They weak links will be targeted and teams can consistently put up a decent or better score against NZ.

For me the IPL has helped to further the gap in quality between the better sides and NZ.

The ones that made it to the IPL. Taylor is the only I'm sure will get a new contract. The rest will not get one or go cheap.

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Difference is Murali did really well when he played.

McCullum in reality is poor as an international batsman, if you look past the hype. Ryder hasn't played for ages. Guptill? Rubbish T20 record and not done well away from home. One of the better top orders in the tournament? No. Just no.

Styris is a poor international batsman, at any format, these days. Taylor is good but has no form and as a middle order player is more peripheral in T20, reliant on platforms being set. On a good day he'll haul you up to a merely decent score.

Some of the bowlers are good but they're just workmanlike and aren't at their best these days. Vettori to some extent has been superseded by other spinners emerging around the world. They weak links will be targeted and teams can consistently put up a decent or better score against NZ.

For me the IPL has helped to further the gap in quality between the better sides and NZ.

The ones that made it to the IPL. Taylor is the only I'm sure will get a new contract. The rest will not get one or go cheap.

Hasn't McCullum been one of the best T20I players to date? Recently tonned up against Aussie IIRC. Ryder from all reports is in surprisingly top form. Guptill hasn't delivered much at T20 but has the makings of a good limited overs player, so far doesn't seem to have any issues with fast bowlers mostly just his own temperament.

Styris I thought was past it personally but has had a huge year and can pick out gaps as well as anyone in international cricket.

Can still see Vettori getting a moderately decent contract in the IPL as well as Bond, Ryder and McCullum. Reckon NZ also works better as a unit than a lot of teams, a bowling-fielding unit less talented but more professional than a lot of the other middling teams.

Still India-SA-Aus all have greater talent and with the latter two are equally as professional.

[Scaly piscine]

Every other top 8 side clearly has greater talent. That's somewhat inevitable anyway given the infrastructures, player pool etc.

If you throw in some IPL-style professionalism then that helps these sides overtake you because they then realise more of the talent.

Obviously that professionalism has yet to seep through to some of the selectors. Some pretty horrific selections for India, Australia and England alone.

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Every other top 8 side clearly has greater talent. That's somewhat inevitable anyway given the infrastructures, player pool etc.

If you throw in some IPL-style professionalism then that helps these sides overtake you because they then realise more of the talent.

Obviously that professionalism has yet to seep through to some of the selectors. Some pretty horrific selections for India, Australia and England alone.

Wouldn't say that every team is more talented or close to being as professional a unit. Pakistan is of course a team of immense talent but if you look at their selected squad the inner politics and other issues have gutted the team a fair bit. The West Indies have their best bowlers injured. Sri Lanka has some hugely talented players and then a lot iffy players below NZ's 1st XI (obviously beyond NZ's 1st XI the standards fall very very very sharply but in limited overs we can feel a very handy team if we're lucky). England's limited overs team... I don't know they should be good but for some reason they never seem to be able to field a good team.

[Pothas]

Good old Scaly and his hatred for New Zealand, it is VERY far from Durham to be fair.

Anyway this is wide open as always but I fancy Australia to crack it this year.

[Scaly piscine]

Well in the past England have generally picked players at the top of the order in particular who are just blatant liabilities (Denly, Bopara, Key etc.) This time they look pretty strong batting-wise albeit their opening partnership is completely unproven. They have done okay in recent T20Is. They'd have made the semis last time but for being D/L-****ed.

Sri Lanka are leagues ahead of NZ.

Their team would have these names in it, potentially:

Dilshan
Jayawardene
Sangakkara
Jayasuriya
Mathews
Kulasekara
Malinga
Murali
Mendis

I doubt the fill-ins will be worse than what NZ have, whilst there are far more quality names and better quality names.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Every other top 8 side clearly has greater talent. That's somewhat inevitable anyway given the infrastructures, player pool etc.

If you throw in some IPL-style professionalism then that helps these sides overtake you because they then realise more of the talent.

Obviously that professionalism has yet to seep through to some of the selectors. Some pretty horrific selections for India, Australia and England alone.

Except England, the only talent they have is a couple of ringers.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

..McCullum in reality is poor as an international batsman, if you look past the hype. ...

Yeah a average of 36 and strike rate of 133 is poor

Batting records | Twenty20 Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Funny he is only the second batsman to score a 100 mind you it was against the minnows Australia.

[Scaly piscine]

On a pitch where despite Clarke batting through most of an innings they still tied 214.

And as discussed already Australia's T20 bowling is a joke, that game no different.

You need more than the occasional bit of meaningless flat track bullying to be a good international batsman.

His T20 World Cup record is 11 innings at an average of 24.60 and a strike rate of 119. He does the same sort of thing in ODIs.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

On a pitch where despite Clarke batting through most of an innings they still tied 214.

And as discussed already Australia's T20 bowling is a joke, that game no different.

You need more than the occasional bit of meaningless flat track bullying to be a good international batsman.

His T20 World Cup record is 11 innings at an average of 24.60 and a strike rate of 119. He does the same sort of thing in ODIs.

Is it because we have a 1/4 of the population as London but are a far far superior side in 2 out of 3 disciplines that irks you?

[TT Boy]

India and Sri Lanka obvious favourites but England should do well. Got the spinners which are crucial and an explosive top order. Will be a big disappointment if they can't reach the S/F.

[Scaly piscine]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is it because we have a 1/4 of the population as London but are a far far superior side in 2 out of 3 disciplines that irks you?

Hahaha. You're as crap at best in any of the 3 disciplines you care to name. I couldn't really give a toss who's better at being an also-ran anyway, it's about winning stuff. See rugby union for further details.

But if you like I can rub it in when New Zealand get thoroughly outclassed yet again by a Pakistan, Sri Lanka or whoever you care to name really.


PS love this quote from Vettori:

http://www.cricinfo.com/world-twenty...ry/457429.html

"You throw in Kyle Mills, who's come back and has been a very successful bowler for us, Tim Southee has done a good job, Ian Butler has come back from injury as well and at times has done a good job for us, so between the five of them from the seam bowling department I think they'll be very adequate"

That sums it up nicely (nice bit of damning by faint praise with Butler too). You don't win trophies with that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Hahaha. You're as crap at best in any of the 3 disciplines you care to name. I couldn't really give a toss who's better at being an also-ran anyway, it's about winning stuff. See rugby union for further details.

But if you like I can rub it in when New Zealand get thoroughly outclassed yet again by a Pakistan, Sri Lanka or whoever you care to name really.

Or whoever (minus england), when was the last time you beat us in a cricket world cup game? 70's? LMAO . Sure SA, Aussie, Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan beat us more than we beat them but for a country with what 60 million vs 4 million and we beat you 7 times out of 10 in OD's, yes England the joke of world sport for over 100 years.

[Scaly piscine]

Is that it? Whinges about population?

Heh. I'll remember that when the Football World Cup comes along and Brazil win, maybe. I'm sure China and India will be gutted to have missed out, but others will be delighted with beating each other to the semi final places.