Group D - West Indies, England, Ireland

[Prince EWS]

No-one seemed to comment on it at the time, or since, though - I was starting to wonder if I'd imagined it

2/5 off 8 overs in that game Pakistan you mentioned was definitely his career highlight. Picked a good game to contribute, too.

[Uppercut]

What stood out about his bowling when I watched him live was the bounce. Similar to a latter-career Glenn McGrath, very difficult to score off.

[zaremba]

Yes - bounce, accuracy and inswing - not a good combination if you're trying to score quickly.

I just clicked on PEWS's link to the cricinfo pages on that Pakistan match. There's no mention at all of Botha's bowling or his amazing analysis, just a passing reference to one of his wickets. This is what I mean by no-one commenting on it.

[Uppercut]

It could've gone either way obviously, but its just crushing for us to end like that. We don't get a crack at England every day.

Yeah, this. Whether you think England were still favourites or not, but it's beyond question that Ireland were by far the better team for the first twenty overs and it's frustrating that we have nothing to show for it. I don't mind going out because our batting performance against the West Indies means we can't really complain but it's disappointing to have such a clear shot at another victory over a test side taken away by the weather. If nothing else it would go some way to ending the endemic patronising of Irish cricket in the English media.

[Prince EWS]

Yes - bounce, accuracy and inswing - not a good combination if you're trying to score quickly.

I just clicked on PEWS's link to the cricinfo pages on that Pakistan match. There's no mention at all of Botha's bowling or his amazing analysis, just a passing reference to one of his wickets. This is what I mean by no-one commenting on it.

Yeah I see what you mean; his bowling was just as much a part of that win as O'Brien's innings with the bat really.

I did manage to give him an honourable mention in the bowler of the tournament thread so at least the people who really count appreciated it.

[Uppercut]

Yes - bounce, accuracy and inswing - not a good combination if you're trying to score quickly.

I just clicked on PEWS's link to the cricinfo pages on that Pakistan match. There's no mention at all of Botha's bowling or his amazing analysis, just a passing reference to one of his wickets. This is what I mean by no-one commenting on it.

He's a bit of an unsung hero. Actually dropped out of the side for a while last year. Has always been prone to prolonged patches of poor form, for whatever reason.

Extremely useful player to have around though. Ireland don't have a very conventional team make-up. Botha will sometimes bowl two overs in an ODI then bat at 8. Ditto Alex Cusack, or even Kevin O'Brien if the batting lineup is particularly fluid. Other times they'll bowl their full ten and bat at three. If a "tail-ender" is in good form he'll often be given a shot up the order sooner rather than later. Essentially we often scrounge enough bits and pieces together to make up a decent total and 50 overs of solid bowling. It's not exactly through design but it's served us pretty well. Botha is exactly the type of player who makes such a system possible.

[Prince EWS]

He's a bit of an unsung hero. Actually dropped out of the side for a while last year.

That was when he had that injury and wasn't fit to bowl though, wasn't it? Was given a go as a specialist bat, failed, and got dropped until he could bowl properly again.

[Uppercut]

Hmm, yeah I think you may be right there. I wasn't sure whether he was just bowling badly.

[Prince EWS]

Hmm, yeah I think you may be right there. I wasn't sure whether he was just bowling badly.

Yeah so did I at first but then I saw an article (on cricinfo I'm pretty sure) about him being recalled because he'd recovered to a point where he could bowl again. Made a lot more sense to me after that.

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, this. Whether you think England were still favourites or not, but it's beyond question that Ireland were by far the better team for the first twenty overs and it's frustrating that we have nothing to show for it. I don't mind going out because our batting performance against the West Indies means we can't really complain but it's disappointing to have such a clear shot at another victory over a test side taken away by the weather. If nothing else it would go some way to ending the endemic patronising of Irish cricket in the English media.

This possibly counts as more patronising still, but I reckon if Morgan was playing for his native rather than adoptive country things could've been v different.

Take his scores in both games away and we're going home on net run rate IMHO.

[Uppercut]

This possibly counts as more patronising still, but I reckon if Morgan was playing for his native rather than adoptive country things could've been v different.

Take his scores in both games away and we're going home on net run rate IMHO.

It's a possibility. Although Morgan's improvement since joining the England squad has been so drastic that the situation is very hypothetical indeed. In any case, the little dude playing so well and attracting notable attention for his unique style can only be good for Irish cricket.

[Smudge]

There will be a breaking point Geraint, once more & more South African's realise the can have a better live & earn more money & it gets to a point that there are more S African-born than English-born players in the team, I think English fans will start wincing a little.

I wonder what Stephen Jones, Eddie Butler and Brendan Gallagher would make of all this.

[Sir Alex]

The first instance simply wouldn't happen. There's strict eligibility criteria where a player has to live and work in a country for 4 years in order to switch nations. I simply don't see Swann and KP grinding it out in the Ranji Trophy for 4 years to play for India.

Once you've played for a Full Member, you can't switch countries for 4 years.

What I don't like is that the likes of Morgan and Joyce are ineligible for their country of origin. There's nothing wrong with a player from an associate wanting to play at a higher level, but it's wrong that they then have to requalify for their original side.

Thanks ginger. Agree with that he should be allowed for play for his own country. Further did ECB compensate Irish Board for him? Should take a leaf out IPL and Champions League in that regard.

[Nnanden]

Ireland.

[BoyBrumby]

Thanks ginger. Agree with that he should be allowed for play for his own country. Further did ECB compensate Irish Board for him? Should take a leaf out IPL and Champions League in that regard.

It's not actually a transfer, you know.

Morally I think us cherry-picking an associate's best players is dubious at best, but we aren't literally purchasing Irishmen.