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Thread: *Official* Netherlands vs Spain (World Cup Final)

  1. #76
    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    A.) Oxymoron. B.) Contradiction.
    Don't see how the first is an oxymoron tbh. I don't pretend to know that much about football, but they always seem content to keep the ball in possession without showing any attacking instinct whatsoever. Kills me even more because the Spanish have the one of the best teams for attack-oriented football in the world at their disposal.

    Don't see how the second statement is a contradiction either, Spain always seem to prefer to wait out the opposition in making the attack and then try to score of counters/set pieces obtained through the counters or possession-play.

    Again, I don't know that much about football, so can make slight mistakes with the terms. All I can say is 1.They definitely, are not playing aggressive football, 2. They definitely are not playing attractive football.(or my personal definition of it)
    Last edited by Teja.; 11-07-2010 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Agree with this, a mediocre Brazil side if I've ever seen one, and I saw the 1990 vintage.

    Couldn't beat Portugal, Spain did. Fairly good form line I'd of thought. Fabiano and Robinho, Brazilian greats? Nah not for me I'm afraid. Lucius was their best player, a defender, pssh.

    Not going to be a great side win this World Cup, but that's nowt new, they'll be better then last times winner. Whoever wins it I reckon will have deserved it, again unlike last year, and a number of other World Cups I can remember.
    Amazing how quickly people change their opinion of a team. Brazil completely dominated the Netherlands in the first half. Absolutely ripped them to pieces. Somehow a reversal in the second half makes Brazil complete ****house?

    Brazil v Portugal was a meaningless, nasty game. Portugal controlled the game against Spain, they just botched their chances. What you're failing to grasp is one result doesn't make a team useless or awesome, unless you happen to work for the gutter press of course.
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  3. #78
    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Would have had Fabregas in instead of Xabi in the Spanish starting XI.

  4. #79
    vcs
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    Attractiveness is very subjective. If you don't find it attractive, that's entirely understandable.

    However, calling possession-based football defensive is a bit of a stretch, IMO. The degree of patience and directness may vary, but the ultimate motive of possession is always to fashion goal-scoring chances, either by pouncing on small gaps, or grinding down the opposition physically (as Spain have tended to do in this tournament, which people find unattractive). As a by-product, it also keeps the opposition from posing a threat to your goal.
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  5. #80
    vcs
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    TBF, Xabi Alonso has had a great tournament. The problem for Spain is, even though this formation fits in all their best players, it somehow renders the team less than the sum of its parts. A fit and sharp Torres would give this team the bit of directness it lacks, IMO.
    Last edited by vcs; 11-07-2010 at 12:48 PM.

  6. #81
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    Really?

    Feel it is Brazil being overated because they are Brazil.

    Sure they are a good side but who did they beat? North Korea, Ivory Cost and Chile.

    Not sure how this makes them the best side in the tournament.

    If Spain had beaten those sides then gone out in the gutless fashion Brazil did then Scaly would leap all over it.

    Spain got the better players on balance as well.
    Well, the loss to Netherlands was pretty much the only thing they did wrong during Dunga's entire tenure. There's a reason they're ranked 1 in the world, they utterly dominated everything they entered until then. It's pretty close between them and Spain but I don't see what makes the suggestion of Brazil being the best team in the tournament so funny. Perfectly fair comment imo.
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  7. #82
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Amazing how quickly people change their opinion of a team. Brazil completely dominated the Netherlands in the first half. Absolutely ripped them to pieces. Somehow a reversal in the second half makes Brazil complete ****house?

    Brazil v Portugal was a meaningless, nasty game. Portugal controlled the game against Spain, they just botched their chances. What you're failing to grasp is one result doesn't make a team useless or awesome, unless you happen to work for the gutter press of course.
    ^this too. If your world-class keeper makes an uncharacteristic boob that turns an important match on its head, there's not much you can do. Why is it only in the World Cup that people overreact to everything that happens? No one concluded that Reading are a better team than Liverpool when they beat them in the FA cup. Why does it happen here?

  8. #83
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Attractiveness is very subjective. If you don't find it attractive, that's entirely understandable.

    However, calling possession-based football defensive is a bit of a stretch, IMO. The degree of patience and directness may vary, but the ultimate motive of possession is always to fashion goal-scoring chances, either by pouncing on small gaps, or grinding down the opposition physically (as Spain have tended to do in this tournament, which people find unattractive). As a by-product, it also keeps the opposition from posing a threat to your goal.
    A) Contradiction
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  9. #84
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Amazing how quickly people change their opinion of a team. Brazil completely dominated the Netherlands in the first half. Absolutely ripped them to pieces. Somehow a reversal in the second half makes Brazil complete ****house?

    Brazil v Portugal was a meaningless, nasty game. Portugal controlled the game against Spain, they just botched their chances. What you're failing to grasp is one result doesn't make a team useless or awesome, unless you happen to work for the gutter press of course.
    If you can find a quote of mine that said Brazil were awesome, you may have a valid point, but you won't. Didn't say they were "****house", just not that good. they were awful against North Korea, average, apart from a brief purple patch, against Ivory Coast and Portugal, you seem to be using a match and a half to proclaim them the best team.

    Oh yeah, I'll stop using the one match to illustrate my view when, you stop using the one match against the Swiss as truth of Spain's ****-houseness. sure Portugal had chances, but Spain had more and better ones IMHO, and were the better team.

    I also said before that Portugal match, you'd ignore Spain's win and call them lucky afterwards, you never disappoint Scaly

    FTR I want Holland to win, Spains forward line have been fairly non-existent, apart from Villa, and playing Alonso and Busquets is just yawnsome, but so is playing Gilberto and Melo. Or van Bommel, Kuyt and de jong, for that matter.
    Last edited by grecian; 11-07-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    ^this too. If your world-class keeper makes an uncharacteristic boob that turns an important match on its head, there's not much you can do. Why is it only in the World Cup that people overreact to everything that happens? No one concluded that Reading are a better team than Liverpool when they beat them in the FA cup. Why does it happen here?
    You've changed your tune. Wasn't so long back you were claiming the better side always won.

    Anyway, grecian said this is a mediocre Brazil side, not that Brazil are a medicore side. There's no doubt in my mind this wasn't a classic Brazilian line-up and that's coming from someone who tipped them as his winners before the tournament. Being a mediocre Brazil isn't quite the same as being a mediocre England.

    Hardly cut a swathe through the tournament either, looked desperately disappointing in beating a woeful North Korea.
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  11. #86
    vcs
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    Don't get why people feel Spain didn't deserve to beat Chile or Portugal. Yeah, Chile had a guy sent off wrongly but Spain were already 2 up by that stage. Portugal barely got out of their half after the first half an hour or so, they got exactly what they deserved out of that match.

    Against Paraguay, Spain did get a slice of luck or two, which they took advantage of.

  12. #87
    vcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matteh View Post
    A) Contradiction
    I dunno, obviously it's subjective. IMO, it's really a stretch (and a bit rich) to call Spain the defensive ones when they spend the majority of the game in the attacking half. What would you call the other team then?

  13. #88
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    I dunno, obviously it's subjective. IMO, it's really a stretch (and a bit rich) to call Spain the defensive ones when they spend the majority of the game in the attacking half. What would you call the other team then?
    Yep, Portugal parked the bus, and Germany just played on the counter, rather poor from both of them, I thought.

    Anyway, hoping for a good match, and it'll be nice to see a new winner, and both sets of fans deserve it really

  14. #89
    Portugal parked the bus and still created the better chances. It isn't about style.

    Spain have one of the most negative styles possible given their personnel. It's a joke how few players they commit into the box. The number of times they get a decent position wide and then end up passing it all the way back to the defence is ridiculous.

  15. #90
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    Spanish are an unpatriotic lot. None of them sing their anthem.

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