*Official* Netherlands vs Spain (World Cup Final) - Page 28

Uppercut · 15-07-2010, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

Given a couple of alleged straight reds he overlooked, I'm happy to assume he'd have yellowed it if he'd seen it. He's making the rules up as eh goes along much more by overlooking it than he'd have been by booking Puyol afterwards.

The fact is, rose has stated in his annoying 'I know everything about football even though I didn't know Man U were a big club in 2004' way that the ref played advantage as though it's definitive, and he didn't. Assume whatever we want, but if you play advantage, you signal advantage, and he didn't.

Well, what I'm saying is perhaps that he didn't technically play advantage- which wouldn't have been allowed- instead he may have just deliberately neglected to notice a foul for the benefit of the aggrieved team. Common sense, you could call it. Puyol had already been booked, so bringing play back and giving a yellow wasn't an option either.

GIMH · 15-07-2010, 04:02 AM

It's certainly not common sense to leave a booked player on the field who does what Puyol did! Especially given the actual reason the Dutch went down to ten men in the end.

Uppercut · 15-07-2010, 04:15 AM

Well if I'm right about the immediate dismissal guidelines, he only really had two options- red card+immediate free kick, or nothing at all. Given that Robben stayed on his feet, it's reasonable to assume he'd have preferred the latter, so that's what Webb gave him. That seems like common sense to me.

Seriously tough spot to make a decision, in any case. As I mentioned before, the ref who sent Lehmann off in the Arsenal-Barca cup final came under even more criticism than Webb has. Damned if you do...

GIMH · 15-07-2010, 04:19 AM

I understand what you mean, I just don't agree that it's common sense. No need to go round in circles though.

Uppercut · 15-07-2010, 04:26 AM

*shrugs*

Either decision would have been fine with me, really. If I were a referee I'd probably have given the free kick and red card. It's funny how much criticism referees get for their decisions on incidents that could go either way. When there's a close lbw it's generally accepted that both out and not-out are fair calls and the umpire gets some benefit of the doubt. Not so in football.

marc71178 · 15-07-2010, 04:41 AM

The big irony in all of it is that it was Robben and he didn't go down for the foul!

roseboy64 · 15-07-2010, 11:57 AM

Think Uppercut said what I wanted to say. Sorry if it sounded snooty but as you've seen before I'm more than willing to accept other views if they're sensible.

Neil Pickup · 15-07-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Well if I'm right about the immediate dismissal guidelines, he only really had two options- red card+immediate free kick, or nothing at all. Given that Robben stayed on his feet, it's reasonable to assume he'd have preferred the latter, so that's what Webb gave him. That seems like common sense to me.

Seriously tough spot to make a decision, in any case. As I mentioned before, the ref who sent Lehmann off in the Arsenal-Barca cup final came under even more criticism than Webb has. Damned if you do...

Uppercut's right.

You definitely can't play advantage from a red card tackle: you have to give the decision and send the man off... even if the ball does the end up in the net, you can't allow the goal. That wasn't an advantage, it was "no foul", which I think is totally fair enough.

All told, I thought Webb had an excellent game: I can even understand the yellow card for de Jong's karate kick... the way I read it, there was no intent to go through the other player's chest. Reckless, yes, but that is only a yellow in itself.

Kweek · 15-07-2010, 04:43 PM

Iniesta red?
missed corner at the end?

sledger · 15-07-2010, 04:45 PM

Get over it.

Kweek · 15-07-2010, 04:46 PM

I am over it, but you can't say Webb had a good game, that's madness.

sledger · 15-07-2010, 04:49 PM

His game was hardly flawless, but it was hardly the worst reffing performance I've ever seen. To suggest it in any way cost Holland the game is crazy.

Kweek · 15-07-2010, 04:58 PM

missing a corner...with 2 minutes to go till penalties is pretty costing...

sledger · 15-07-2010, 05:00 PM

So is failing to create/take any decent chances for the entire match.

Kweek · 15-07-2010, 05:21 PM

Yes...still the moment that outdid us had an air of failure from the referee over it.

15-07-2010, 04:02 AM	#407 (permalink)
GIMH Eternal Optimist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shake my tree where's the apple for me? Posts: 43,617	It's certainly not common sense to leave a booked player on the field who does what Puyol did! Especially given the actual reason the Dutch went down to ten men in the end. __________________ Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they’ll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

15-07-2010, 04:41 AM	#411 (permalink)
marc71178 Eyes not spreadsheets Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: England Posts: 56,346	The big irony in all of it is that it was Robben and he didn't go down for the foul! __________________ marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good! Anyone want to join the Society? Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

15-07-2010, 11:57 AM	#412 (permalink)
roseboy64 Cricket Web Content Updater Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jamaica Posts: 18,549	Think Uppercut said what I wanted to say. Sorry if it sounded snooty but as you've seen before I'm more than willing to accept other views if they're sensible. __________________ Sir Alexander Chapman Ferguson = Greatest Ever Manager "One from ten leaves zero." - Eric Williams, former T&T PM Member of Cricket Web Green Member of Northside Power R.I.P Fardin Qayyumi

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15-07-2010, 04:15 AM	#408 (permalink)
Uppercut Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 21,789	Well if I'm right about the immediate dismissal guidelines, he only really had two options- red card+immediate free kick, or nothing at all. Given that Robben stayed on his feet, it's reasonable to assume he'd have preferred the latter, so that's what Webb gave him. That seems like common sense to me. Seriously tough spot to make a decision, in any case. As I mentioned before, the ref who sent Lehmann off in the Arsenal-Barca cup final came under even more criticism than Webb has. Damned if you do...

15-07-2010, 04:19 AM	#409 (permalink)
GIMH Eternal Optimist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shake my tree where's the apple for me? Posts: 43,617	I understand what you mean, I just don't agree that it's common sense. No need to go round in circles though.

15-07-2010, 04:26 AM	#410 (permalink)
Uppercut Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 21,789	shrugs Either decision would have been fine with me, really. If I were a referee I'd probably have given the free kick and red card. It's funny how much criticism referees get for their decisions on incidents that could go either way. When there's a close lbw it's generally accepted that both out and not-out are fair calls and the umpire gets some benefit of the doubt. Not so in football.

15-07-2010, 04:45 PM	#415 (permalink)
sledger Spanish_Vicente Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: cricsim, lol Posts: 28,134	Get over it.

15-07-2010, 04:46 PM	#416 (permalink)
Kweek Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands Posts: 7,718	I am over it, but you can't say Webb had a good game, that's madness.

15-07-2010, 04:49 PM	#417 (permalink)
sledger Spanish_Vicente Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: cricsim, lol Posts: 28,134	His game was hardly flawless, but it was hardly the worst reffing performance I've ever seen. To suggest it in any way cost Holland the game is crazy.

15-07-2010, 04:58 PM	#418 (permalink)
Kweek Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands Posts: 7,718	missing a corner...with 2 minutes to go till penalties is pretty costing...

15-07-2010, 05:00 PM	#419 (permalink)
sledger Spanish_Vicente Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: cricsim, lol Posts: 28,134	So is failing to create/take any decent chances for the entire match.

15-07-2010, 05:21 PM	#420 (permalink)
Kweek Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands Posts: 7,718	Yes...still the moment that outdid us had an air of failure from the referee over it.

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