*Official* Netherlands vs Spain (World Cup Final)

[KiWiNiNjA]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

What advantage did Robben gain though?

The advantage of not having to look at Puyol's ugly mug as he was being cuddled?

[Uppercut]

Puyol had to go whether you play the advantage or not, IMO. I don't think you're allowed to bring play back to give a red though. I suppose that would make a free kick and straight red the only right decision.

It's amazing that he stayed on the pitch after that.

[Kweek]

Originally Posted by Pothas

Not everyone defending their side like Kweek has been.

World Cup final: Johan Cruyff hits out at 'anti-football' Holland | Football | The Guardian

Cruyff's children and grandchildren are spanish passport holders, go figure

[Steulen]

Cruyff's a stupif **** TBH. There was a time when his views were the gospel to all Dutch football fans and media, but these days he's more seen as an eccentric (at best) or a manipulator pushing his own agenda (at worst). His relentless condemning of everything that doesn't fit his philosophy is quite tiresome.

[Kweek]

Originally Posted by Steulen

Cruyff's a stupif **** TBH. There was a time when his views were the gospel to all Dutch football fans and media, but these days he's more seen as an eccentric (at best) or a manipulator pushing his own agenda (at worst). His relentless condemning of everything that doesn't fit his philosophy is quite tiresome.

Agree, and this view is widely spread in the Dutch people, we tend to not take him so serious anymore.

He is the guy that said Ajax youth system is horrible and should be totally remodelled.
This is the youth system that brought the world so many great players and in the current Ajax team there are some real big gems as well...Stekelenburg was the 2nd best keeper at the WC, van der Wiel showed glimses of being great, Eriksen is only 18 and already played for Denmark during the WC(been at Ajax since 15) and was a revelation in the Dutch Eredivise last year.
not to forget Sneijder & van der Vaart

[nightprowler10]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

A victory for football, if you're going to follow the cliche, would have been a Germany win IMO, but they bottled it in the semis.

Yeah not like them to leave a job unfinished.

[roseboy64]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

What advantage did Robben gain though?

He got past the defence and was 1 on 1 with the keeper. The ref played advantage as he'd gained an advantageous position. He missed and that's that.

[roseboy64]

Originally Posted by KiWiNiNjA

Nah nah, that's misleading.
A lot of the fouls that Netherlands committed weren't really fouls, Spain were just going down way to easy and Webb loved blowing the whistle.

I agree with Ausage and Kweek, the media has made it out to be worse than it was. Half of Netherlands yellows were either very harsh, or down to Spanish theatrics. Yeah, Netherlands were a bit more aggressive than Spain, but only a little bit, Spain got away with a lot of stuff that the Netherlands didn't because of theatrics, or just plain inconsistency.

I used my own eyes and the views of generally impartial folk not the media. I've barely read about it in the media. Webb blowed the whistle because they were usually FK worthy fouls. What exactly did Spain get away with?

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by roseboy64

He got past the defence and was 1 on 1 with the keeper. The ref played advantage as he'd gained an advantageous position. He missed and that's that.

If he'd played advantage Puyol would have been booked afterwards, you're just wrong

[Uppercut]

As far as I'm aware, a referee can't bring play back and red card someone. They're supposed to leave the field immediately after committing the offence. He can't really play the advantage and then book Puyol for an obvious red card offence either. He'd kinda be making up the rules as he goes along.

I suspect Webb was just taking a common sense approach and overlooking the incident completely, on the grounds that it was the option Holland would have preferred with Robben clean through on goal. You'd have to bend the framework of the rules a little too much to do anything else besides giving an immediate free kick and red card, which caused a lot of hassle to the ref who sent of Jens Lehmann in another high-profile final. I can't believe that he would have simply failed to see such an obvious foul.

[pasag]

Bye South Africa, thanks for being had by us - The Irish Times - Mon, Jul 12, 2010

y/n?

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

As far as I'm aware, a referee can't bring play back and red card someone. They're supposed to leave the field immediately after committing the offence. He can't really play the advantage and then book Puyol for an obvious red card offence either. He'd kinda be making up the rules as he goes along.

I remember back in Euro 96 a ref did play on and go back and send someone off (an Italian if my memory serves me correctly) about 2 minutes later when the ball went dead, but the rules may have changed since then.

Also, again not sure of any changes, but the rule used to be that if someone did a Suarez/Kewell but the ball still went in, it was a goal and a yellow card for unsporting behaviour (ie being a failure at cheating)

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

As far as I'm aware, a referee can't bring play back and red card someone. They're supposed to leave the field immediately after committing the offence. He can't really play the advantage and then book Puyol for an obvious red card offence either. He'd kinda be making up the rules as he goes along.

I suspect Webb was just taking a common sense approach and overlooking the incident completely, on the grounds that it was the option Holland would have preferred with Robben clean through on goal. You'd have to bend the framework of the rules a little too much to do anything else besides giving an immediate free kick and red card, which caused a lot of hassle to the ref who sent of Jens Lehmann in another high-profile final. I can't believe that he would have simply failed to see such an obvious foul.

Given a couple of alleged straight reds he overlooked, I'm happy to assume he'd have yellowed it if he'd seen it. He's making the rules up as eh goes along much more by overlooking it than he'd have been by booking Puyol afterwards.

The fact is, rose has stated in his annoying 'I know everything about football even though I didn't know Man U were a big club in 2004' way that the ref played advantage as though it's definitive, and he didn't. Assume whatever we want, but if you play advantage, you signal advantage, and he didn't.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by marc71178

I remember back in Euro 96 a ref did play on and go back and send someone off (an Italian if my memory serves me correctly) about 2 minutes later when the ball went dead, but the rules may have changed since then.

Also, again not sure of any changes, but the rule used to be that if someone did a Suarez/Kewell but the ball still went in, it was a goal and a yellow card for unsporting behaviour (ie being a failure at cheating)

Just to be clear, I'm not 100% on this. I know when you take the FIFA course in refereeing you're explicitly told that a player has to be dismissed immediately for a red card offence. It could be a relatively recent development, or referees in the World Cup could be instructed differently. But in any case, it's extremely rare to see a referee play an advantage then bring play back and red card someone.

[marc71178]

Yeah, it's been a while since I gave up refereeing (best part of 15 years) so it wouldnt surprise me if the guidelines (as opposed to the rules) have changed since then!