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Why doesn't FIFA do something about diving/players abusing referees?

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Yeah, I know. I would be in favour of retroactive punishments for that sort of thing. Diving will never be curbed, IMO, but the attempts to get opposition players sent off is something the authorities have tried to stop over the years. Back around the 98 WC through the turn of the century there was a flurry of players waving imaginary cards to referees immediately following a foul. Still happens to an extent but was calmed down massively once that in itself was made a bookable offence.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, like I've said, diving is not attractive but there isn't a massive need to bring new fans in. Week-in week-out fans (like myself) may not like diving, but we don't dislike it enough to walk away. Until that starts happening it's hard to see anything massive happening.
I don't really agree with the notion that FIFA doesn't care about expanding the game. The US in particular would be a really big deal for them because it's such a big market, but just in general terms, more fans = more money.

Obviously all the stuff about scoring you can ignore. FIFA already make occasional efforts to encourage attacking play in international games as it is, and even if they didn't, the rareness of goals is a big part of the sport and makes scoring that much more exciting when it does occur. It might turn off some people, but nobody who would ever be a dedicated fan of the sport.

Diving, faking injuries and abusing/threatening referees is a big problem with the sport though, especially when it comes to bringing in new fans, which is something FIFA is always going to be interested in doing.

Really can't believe people are still comparing fouling someone to pretending you've been fouled as though both are cheating, BTW.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I'm not going to read any article that suggests it needs more scoring.

I'd love it if someone went into a thread about Test Cricket SS and said that there should be less wickets and more sixes.
I see your point, but I perhaps have a slightly different gripe with the low scores than most who complain. It's not that I think the games are deprived of action or exciting moments because of it - I just think it opens itself too much to results completely unrepresentative of the flow of the game. I just don't like the fact that you can be all over a team for the whole game but end up 1-1 because of a lucky rebound and a few of your shots hitting the post, just being saved etc. Obviously you want some of this randomness (well it's not even so much randomness as it is over-representation of certain skills) in a sport but, for my taste, it's a little overdone in association football.

The rarity of scores wouldn't be so bad if field position was really hard to come by. The flow of the game would then dictate one's opportunities a lot more, but as it is a goal really only takes a few seconds of good play by one team or poor play from another to eventuate, even from the other end of the field. This is fine by itself too but when you combine that with the rarity of scoring, most of the game just becomes so irrelevant. There aren't sustained periods of pressure where a team defends and defends and eventually cracks, because of the fluid nature of possession and territory.

I should make it clear, however, that I'm not really suggesting it'd be a good idea to change this. Obviously the sport is plenty popular the way it is and changing it to accommodate the likes of me just wouldn't be a very good idea. I'm just explaining why I, personally, never really followed it with any sustained interest. I can enjoy watching a match but that applies to most sports and the gripe I explained is the essential reason for me not being a proper fan. When I've explained this before, I generally get told "Yeah, but that's just football" ... but I know that - that's precisely why I'm not a huge fan.
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Hmm, there is a lot of things I believe wrong with soccer, but not that Prince. If you defend well for 88 minutes, but for 2 minutes didn't defend well, and you lose 1-0, you cop it.

It's not that random, the very good teams still seem to make it to the finals and win the World Cup.

For every South Korea or whomever is on a run, you can compare it to Kenya or Bangladesh qualifying or making World Cup semis in cricket.

All relative.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Hmm, there is a lot of things I believe wrong with soccer, but not that Prince. If you defend well for 88 minutes, but for 2 minutes didn't defend well, and you lose 1-0, you cop it
Yeah, I don't like that though. You can say "that's soccer, you cop it etc" but that's precisely why I'm not a big fan - because soccer is like that more than other sports. I feel the scoreline fails to accurately represent the flow of the game and the result is too often determined by a couple of key moments; most of the game just becomes irrelevant.

For every South Korea or whomever is on a run, you can compare it to Kenya or Bangladesh qualifying or making World Cup semis in cricket.

All relative.
There's a difference between the propensity for upsets and the propensity for the team that played the best on the day to not win. Bangladesh aren't better than India but they sure as hell played better than them in that group game of the last World Cup. I can't say the same about a lot of the soccer upsets I've seen; teams often seem to, to me anyway, look generally outplayed but get some sort of result anyway.

Obviously I'm not saying it should actually be changed because clearly, not many people mind. It's just a personal taste thing. I'll just not watch it often; no-one will lose any sleep.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
What do you define playing better?

And what are these matches where the teams that played better didn't win? Or lost?

Seriously, for a sport where the best teams always win the leagues (look at the competitions in England, Italy and Spain), to say that soccer is random is just incorrect.

The cream always rises. It's the most predictable sport on the whole. To say it's random just doesn't sit well with the facts of what actually happens.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
What do you define playing better?

And what are these matches where the teams that played better didn't win? Or lost?

Seriously, for a sport where the best teams always win the leagues (look at the competitions in England, Italy and Spain), to say that soccer is random is just incorrect.

The cream always rises. It's the most predictable sport on the whole. To say it's random just doesn't sit well with the facts of what actually happens.
Random isn't really the right word. As I said in my original post:

randomness (well it's not even so much randomness as it is over-representation of certain skills)
There's a massive over-importance on finishing skills, for mine. The vast majority of the game is played outside the box and it's all pretty irrelevant - rugby for example has major scores only a little more frequently than soccer but everything else is still interesting and relevant because it's a real battle to win territory and get into scoring position. For a sport where scores are so hard to come by, the ease of which they can happen from any position in any circumstance opens it up to, as I said, results that do not reflect the flow of the game. They might reflect the quality of the teams pretty accurately, but only quality in terms of adhering to the nature of the game - an inherent nature I don't really like.

The cream always rises. It's the most predictable sport on the whole.
Well yeah, because you'll get teams that are good at manipulating how it works, just like everything else. I just don't like how it works though - I don't like how you can't really build pressure with possession or territory, I don't like how much of the game can be made irrelevant by four seconds of brilliance or epic failure and I don't like the over-importance placed on finishing skills by the nature of the game. It's just me though. Fans of the game see all these things are good qualities and they can be depending on what sort of spin you put on them (the positive spin on what I said could be, for example, "it's always exciting because you're never out of the game" ir "a goal can come at any time"), but while I don't dislike the sport and I can watch the odd game with interest, I will never have a true supporter's interest and it's for this reason.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
See Prince, if you don't like the sport (nor aren't enamoured with it, anyhow) because of that, it's fine, I just would hate to see overt changes made to entice ignorant Americans with no attention span :ph34r: (and obviously the reasons you have don't relate to attention span)

However, I think an important thing to note is that in football, the random element is taken out more than most sports in the domestic leagues because in most countries there is not a 'Final' to determine the champion, simply the team with the most points wins the title which means the aberrations that happen through a season are evened out, almost.

Obviously it doesn't apply to the WC, the Champions League etc, and that's why you will see a Porto win the Champions League and a Greece win the European Championships. But for all the whining about the monopolisation of the English league, the fact is it's invariably won by the best side.

The only country I can think of who don't crown their champions in this way are America and Australia (enough said :ph34r:), there are probably others but
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
See Prince, if you don't like the sport (nor aren't enamoured with it, anyhow) because of that, it's fine, I just would hate to see overt changes made to entice ignorant Americans with no attention span :ph34r: (and obviously the reasons you have don't relate to attention span)

However, I think an important thing to note is that in football, the random element is taken out more than most sports in the domestic leagues because in most countries there is not a 'Final' to determine the champion, simply the team with the most points wins the title which means the aberrations that happen through a season are evened out, almost.

Obviously it doesn't apply to the WC, the Champions League etc, and that's why you will see a Porto win the Champions League and a Greece win the European Championships. But for all the whining about the monopolisation of the English league, the fact is it's invariably won by the best side.

The only country I can think of who don't crown their champions in this way are America and Australia (enough said :ph34r:), there are probably others but
Yeah, I'm not suggesting the sport should be changed for me or anyone else who isn't a big fan as it stands. It's obviously not struggling so any changes should only be made if the majority of 'true' fans actually agree it.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Yeah, I don't like that though. You can say "that's soccer, you cop it etc" but that's precisely why I'm not a big fan - because soccer is like that more than other sports. I feel the scoreline fails to accurately represent the flow of the game and the result is too often determined by a couple of key moments; most of the game just becomes irrelevant.
How's that any different to South Africa winning the final Test against England in January to tie the series 1-1?
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Bob Bradley (the US coach) has come out and said that if on review someone goes down getting hit in the chest and grabs their face, the red card should be rescinded and the offending player should be banned for 'a number of games'.

Awesome. I don't know anything about the politics of soccer to know if this'll catch on, but I hope so. I've really been excited following the sport during this WC, and this is by far the single biggest issue that would keep neutrals like me from following it. Many American commentators were saying the same thing today.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
A straight red is pretty harsh for a dive.. Given that its something that isn't often obvious.. If you arent going to use technology at all, then you shouldn't be waving red cards around unless you are massively sure about whats gone on..

Has the intimidation of a referee ever led to him changing his decision in top flight football? I think a fair few decisions in cricket have been given on the strength of the umpire being intimidated
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
I don't know anything about the politics of soccer to know if this'll catch on, but I hope so.
As a US suggestion, current football politics means it'll be slightly less popular than an Iranian motion to the UN Security Council.

The US don't even have a referee at this World Cup despite the number of refs in the US probably being about equal to that of the rest of CONCACAF (who has six all in all :dry: )
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
A straight red is pretty harsh for a dive.. Given that its something that isn't often obvious.. If you arent going to use technology at all, then you shouldn't be waving red cards around unless you are massively sure about whats gone on..

Has the intimidation of a referee ever led to him changing his decision in top flight football? I think a fair few decisions in cricket have been given on the strength of the umpire being intimidated
You can suspend the players after the game. Force the team to field ten men in their next outing. I bet it goes away within a month.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
World Cup's over for you SS, go back to 'American sports' now

Would advise against trolling in the unlikely event of an England defeat tomorrow btw, not behaviour befitting of a mod :ph34r:
 

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