Pele vs Maradona

[Jono]

Good point

[Ikki]

I know sfa about soccer but I do know Brazil didn't win in 1966

I ALWAYS make that mistake. Probably because he got injured in 66 too.

Haha, sorry, 62. Apologies to the English.

[Ikki]

Warne and Ponting were in pretty damn good teams too by the way.

I get your point, but it's really not even close, possibly because the difference in the sports and how they're played. Only a batsman like Bradman or an unbelievably good all-rounder could affect a cricket game the way Maradona did a football match.

[Jono]

Haha Ikki, I know **** all about Pele other than him being a cool guy on TV, and doing awesome **** with a soccer ball on Youtube.

I'm not going to debate whether he was better than Maradona, was just curious as to why you thought he was overrated.

[Jono]

One thing which Pele has over Maradona is this classic:

[GIMH]

Maradona's a ****

[Sir Alex]

lol

[GIMH]

This is a warning to any English posters

Vote for Maradona and I will see to it that you are deported

kthnxby

[grecian]

Maradona was great, but we'll never know how much of that greatness was down to being drugged up, may as well call Ben Johnson the best athlete ever. Pele is greater by many many miles.

To say "most" football fans don't rate Pele is a joke too. The guy was a complete player, two-footed, could beat players, quick, could head the ball, had great vision. Diego fails on two of those.

Much overstated how Diego single-handedly won the '86 world cup too. Valdano, Burrachaga were very good players, he was stand-out, but it's not like he won it for a previously unheralded nation. Argentina are a World force in the modern era, without Diego, before and after.

[wpdavid]

fwiw I've always argued that it wasn't Pele's fault that he never had to carry a team like Maradona supposedly did in 1986. However, even allowing for that, he made a massive difference when he was brought into the team in 1958 and was hugely influential in 1970. Yes they won in 1962 without him, but I'm not sure that lessens his standing as a player.

His total number of goals - over 1000 ffs - scored counts for a lot imo, even if they were mostly scored for Santos. Given the quality of players produced, the Brazilian league can't have been complete crap, but obviously I'm guessing to some extent.

I'm not convinced that defences were as poor as you're suggesting either. My understanding is that they got away with murder in those days, and Pele had to cope with that. Certainly by the mid1960's, four at the back + one or two defensive midfielders was the norm, catenaccio had been around for some years, and forwards really had to earn their corn. The amount of marking that he attracted tended to leave space for other (see Jair's goal against England), so it's not surprising that he wasn't the top scorer in the torunament.

Of course, beyond that, there is a certain amount of subjectivity. I'm biased because I have more respect for Pele as a man than I do for Maradona. If pushed, I'd even question the extent of DM's role I 1986 - one (admitedly stunning) legitimate goal in the quarter final, two in the semifinal, and a routine through ball in the final is slightly less than some would have you believe. But I'm not pushing any of this as definitive - simply a few alternative views.

[Ikki]

Haha Ikki, I know **** all about Pele other than him being a cool guy on TV, and doing awesome **** with a soccer ball on Youtube.

I'm not going to debate whether he was better than Maradona, was just curious as to why you thought he was overrated.

This may sound like I have something against the guy but I don't even reckon he's cool at all. Even Brazilians would rather he shut up. Romario once said: "Pele is a poet when he keeps his mouth shut". And outside of actually playing it, he's a bit of an embarrassment as a pundit. His predictions are legendary for being so horribly wrong. Top 10 Wrong Pele Predictions - Goal.com

[Ikki]

Maradona was great, but we'll never know how much of that greatness was down to being drugged up, may as well call Ben Johnson the best athlete ever. Pele is greater by many many miles.

To say "most" football fans don't rate Pele is a joke too. The guy was a complete player, two-footed, could beat players, quick, could head the ball, had great vision. Diego fails on two of those.

Much overstated how Diego single-handedly won the '86 world cup too. Valdano, Burrachaga were very good players, he was stand-out, but it's not like he won it for a previously unheralded nation. Argentina are a World force in the modern era, without Diego, before and after.

Maradona didn't take performance enhancing drugs; he was on cocaine. If anything, it hindered his playing.

And stating that Pele was more complete is a bit of a joke argument. Might as well argue that Ballack is better than Messi.

Also, Valdano and Burachaga were far from outstanding world-stars - of which there were plenty in Pele's teams. Also, Maradona did the same thing for Napoli. It wasn't really a one-time thing.

[GIMH]

Maradona didn't take performance enhancing drugs; he was on cocaine. If anything, it hindered his playing.

And stating that Pele was more complete is a bit of a joke argument. Might as well argue that Ballack is better than Messi.

Also, Valdano and Burachaga were far from outstanding world-stars - of which there were plenty in Pele's teams. Also, Maradona did the same thing for Napoli. It wasn't really a one-time thing.

Now come on....

[wpdavid]

Maradona didn't take performance enhancing drugs; he was on cocaine. If anything, it hindered his playing.

Are you sure that's what they found in his sample in 1994?
and ergo we don't know how long he'd been taking the stuff?

[GIMH]

Cocaine was in 91.

In the WC it was ephedrine they found