Not getting the horn...

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFire

Erm, you were the one moralising it in the first place with some irrelevant point about a subject that you clearly know next to nothing about.

It's not like the fact that they are annoying is that the only real oppostion people have to them. They drown out potential safety announcements and could potentially cause hearing damage to people in the croud, basically they could potentially be in breach of health and safety regulations. Fine, if you you are a South African football fan that goes to some local match, then you don't really have much of a right to complain, but there are people who have spend £1000s on getting to the WC who had no warning of the noise, who have had the experienced ruined by that infernal drone.

I just don't see why because it's 'traditional' means that it's somehow scared and can't be critisised or banned.

I don't think FIFA would have simply ignored that if it such a grave danger.

FIFA not to ban vuvuzela

Interestingly,

Van Schalkwyk, whose Cape Town-based company Masincedane Sports, has been making vuvuzelas since the late 1990s, said he had sold over 800,000 in South Africa.

More surprisingly, he said he had also sold 1.5 million units in Europe, home to the horn's fiercest critics.

Overblown imho.

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

C'mon.. stadiums are designed to absorb a big chunk of noise. Acoustics they call it right? Further EPL is known to record above 100 dB sound consistently, and I haven't heard complaints about it. As I said above, it is much less than a Symphony let alone a rock concert. It is irritating no doubt, but it's a part of the package.

How is the stadium design helping the guy sitting right next to a person blaring the horn in his ear? 127 dB is thrice as loud as 100 dB, there's a major step up involved.

[Sir Alex]

I must admit I love the British cricketing crowd though. One of the best in the world when they are not singing the stupid Barmy Army slogan. It's a pleasure when gentle claps accompany a ball to the ropes regardless of the batsman's nationality at Lord's.

[PhoenixFire]

Conversations on a person to person level are basically impossible, which are just as important as stadia wide announcements. Bryan Robson said he couldn't communicate with his players in a friendly against Thailand and South African scientists have said that there is a real threat to people's health as far as their hearing goes.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

I said among the worst. Yes, they are not alone there, but I don't think it is proper on ignoring own problems and instead look down upon activities of other fans, atleast they are enjoying themselves without bodily or verbally abusing others.

About 3000 English hooligans were asked to surrender their passports ahead of this world cup because they were on the black list of authorities for causing problems at stadia repeatedly. I don't think any other nation had to take such extreme measures.

I appreciate British authorities for that step however. But let's not moralise in this. Pot kettle black.

What stadia have English football fans caused problems at in the last 20 years?

The negative publicity sorrounding English fans at France 98 and in Euro 2000 (Charleroi iic) were because of rioting away from the ground. Off the top of my head, I can't recall any more recent incidents involving English fans following England abroad.

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

How is the stadium design helping the guy sitting right next to a person blaring the horn in his ear? 127 dB is thrice as loud as 100 dB, there's a major step up involved.

I wish we had some scientific backing on this. It is not as if such decibel levels are never created by English crowds.

Congratulations go to Colchester United, who have
triumphed in the ‘Real Football Roar’ award – The Football League’s
initiative that measured crowd noise levels at each of its 72 clubs
during the first month of the new season.

The U’s
supporters held off stiff competition from Norwich City and Carlisle
United, to register the loudest crowd ‘roar’ of all 72 clubs in The
League, with a recording of 128.3 decibels taken as the players took to
the pitch for the recent Coca-Cola Championship fixture with Derby
County at Layer Road. Most impressive.

They even held a competition for that! Lol.

Who are the loudest fans in the Football League? Who Ate all the Pies

[PhoenixFire]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

I wish we had some scientific backing on this. It is not as if such decibel levels are never created by English crowds.

I'm no scientist but the concept of a logarithmic scale is reasonably easy to grasp. You understand them?

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFire

Conversations on a person to person level are basically impossible, which are just as important as stadia wide announcements. Bryan Robson said he couldn't communicate with his players in a friendly against Thailand and South African scientists have said that there is a real threat to people's health as far as their hearing goes.

I don't think a potential health threat could be easily viewed by FIFA, particularly considering this is a world cup, no matter what perceptions about entertaining local flavours be. I don't think the so called scientists have succeeded in convincing the top bosses at FIFA regarding the seriousness of the issue.

[Matteh]

They didn't do that for 90 minutes however...

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFire

I'm no scientist but the concept of a logarithmic scale is reasonably easy to grasp. You understand them?

I was not disputing GI Joe's statement about the rise in scale but merely expressing my disappointment at lack of credible proofs that South African stadia are generating enough noise to blow away the ear drums of the spectators.

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by Matteh

They didn't do that for 90 minutes however...

It should take a superman to continously blow a horn for 90 minutes also. Besides considering a competition was on, it is only logical the crowd would all the more be encouraged to tee off one yell after another.

[Matteh]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

What stadia have English football fans caused problems at in the last 20 years?

The negative publicity sorrounding English fans at France 98 and in Euro 2000 (Charleroi iic) were because of rioting away from the ground. Off the top of my head, I can't recall any more recent incidents involving English fans following England abroad.

English fans abroad have been on the receiving end in more recent years. Couple of fans killed by Turks, couple more stabbed in Rome? (Man Utd in Italy somewhere).
How many times do you see games played behind closed doors in the EPL? They're fairly regular in Serie A.
South American stadiums appear to just be giant deathtraps where anything goes, they've not had their Hillsborough/Bradford/Heysel disasters.

[Matteh]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

It should take a superman to continously blow a horn for 90 minutes also. Besides considering a competition was on, it is only logical the crowd would all the more be encouraged to tee off one yell after another.

When somewhere between 30,000 and 90,000 are blowing horns, it creates a constant noise for 90 minutes though, which is the constant drone everyone hates.

Shouting for a minute for the purposes of a competition just is nothing like the same issue AND shouting isn't a boring drone.

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

I wish we had some scientific backing on this. It is not as if such decibel levels are never created by English crowds.



They even held a competition for that! Lol.

Who are the loudest fans in the Football League? Who Ate all the Pies

What does that even mean? The decibel scale isn't folklore. And there's a major difference between exposure to those levels for brief periods as in that competition, and 90 minutes as in the case of these horns. It makes no sense comparing the peak dB levels in one instance to the same levels maintained over 90 whole minutes as in the case of the vuvuzela. The average dB levels in the EPL were measured to be closer to 90 dB. An army of vuvuzelas stays at 120dB throughout the game no matter what.

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

What stadia have English football fans caused problems at in the last 20 years?

The negative publicity sorrounding English fans at France 98 and in Euro 2000 (Charleroi iic) were because of rioting away from the ground. Off the top of my head, I can't recall any more recent incidents involving English fans following England abroad.

20 years is too long a period. But I agree since 2000, thanks to stringent laws enacted and their stiff execution, English authorities have been able to rein in considerably the threat. Preventive arrests are the key here.