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Thread: *Official* England Squad Thread

  1. #61
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Barry is better than Carrick in every regard. Carrick can pass the ball sideways along the midfield, he adds nothing else to the side. His tackling and passing are not of an international standard, and for a player who should make a claim for his inclusion based on these abilities, this is not acceptable.
    Carrick passing is definately international standard. He can't tackle thats about it. Barry's passing is about as good as him. Carrick can pass the ball all over FYI, i've definately seen Carrick pass straight & long balls from mid-field to wingers very accurately. It may be not as consistent as a Pirlo or Xavi, but its definately international quality passing standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    If Carrick learns to tackle as well as Gareth Barry in one day? That's an absurd suggestion, if Robert Green suddenly becomes as good as Zidane overnight he should probably be picked to play in midfield as well.

    Besides, the bottom line is he isn't as good currently so it's not worth dwelling on, irrespective of will he will ever be, something I doubt.
    Haa, so what players can't improve??. We talking about two mid-fielers who are very comparable. So i dont know where you going try to equate Carrick learning to tackle well, with if Green suddenly becoming as good as Zidane he should play in mid-field



    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    As for Gerrard partnering Lampard in midfield, so be it, it's not ideal, but shunting a substandard player into the team for no other reason than two of the better players in the side are not at their most effective whilst playing along side one another is another weak justification for any sort of inclusion.
    - Gerrard & Lamps cant play in mid-field alongside each other since we both knows its a failed formula.

    - We dont need Stevie G our most talented mid-fielder being wasted in a defensive position, which he will be doing if he partners Lamps in the centre.

    - Carrick has is faults yes & his not the greatest, but if Barry gets injured. I'm much rather have Carrick replacing him than anyone else especially if Hargreaves wont make the final 23.

    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of Milner playing in the middle either, but on current form he has done everything to suggest he has a better claim to the position than Carrick,
    Haa you can't be serious. What does Milner offer as a mid-fielder that would make him better than Carrick @ international level?.

    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    and as you seem to be so keen on versatility I'm surprised you'd begrudge him the opportunity.
    I'm not conviced Milner's recent role in the mid-field is definately a sign of versatily that can be replicated at international level. So i'm againts the suggestion. For now Milner should be only considered as option on the wing.

    I'd much rather Beckham be tried in centre of the park alongside Lamps if Barry was to get injured...

  2. #62
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    * better than Carrick

    Carrick's been anonymous all season. Definitely form you want to take to the World Cup...
    If he actually managed to build on last season, I could see an argument. But there's absolutely no reason for him to be there as things stands. He's taken backward steps. Beckham still a star.

    On another note, I'd comfortably take Bent ahead of Cole. I like Carlton Cole a lot, but he's not fit enough or consistent enough. Not sure how much more Bent has to do to prove that he's worthy of an England place.
    Yeah I'd agree with this. I'm not a massive fan of Darren Bent, but his form this season means that he can hardly be denied at least a proper run of games for him to attempt to prove his worth at international level. It's not like there are a string of other options waiting in the wings either so he's at least worth a try imo.

  3. #63
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
    Good job McAteer played for Ireland otherwise he'd have got a mention in this thread.



    oops, did i just say McAteer?
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  4. #64
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Carrick passing is definately international standard. He can't tackle thats about it. Barry's passing is about as good as him. Carrick can pass the ball all over FYI, i've definately seen Carrick pass straight & long balls from mid-field to wingers very accurately. It may be not as consistent as a Pirlo or Xavi, but its definately international quality passing standard.



    Haa, so what players can't improve??. We talking about two mid-fielers who are very comparable. So i dont know where you going try to equate Carrick learning to tackle well, with if Green suddenly becoming as good as Zidane he should play in mid-field





    - Gerrard & Lamps cant play in mid-field alongside each other since we both knows its a failed formula.

    - We dont need Stevie G our most talented mid-fielder being wasted in a defensive position, which he will be doing if he partners Lamps in the centre.

    - Carrick has is faults yes & his not the greatest, but if Barry gets injured. I'm much rather have Carrick replacing him than anyone else especially if Hargreaves wont make the final 23.



    Haa you can't be serious. What does Milner offer as a mid-fielder that would make him better than Carrick @ international level?.



    I'm not conviced Milner's recent role in the mid-field is definately a sign of versatily that can be replicated at international level. So i'm againts the suggestion. For now Milner should be only considered as option on the wing.

    I'd much rather Beckham be tried in centre of the park alongside Lamps if Barry was to get injured...
    Right, so Carrick should be picked because he can pass the ball as well as Gareth Barry, but has none of his other attributes, I see.

    Players can improve, but there is no reason to suggest Carrick might suddenly become a great deal better at tackling between now and the start of the tournament, so it's a pointless hypothesis.

    Milner has actually played well, that is what he has offered in greater abundance than Carrick. The fact that Milner has done a better job than any other notable candidates for the position not a reasonable enough suggestion that he should be given a go there internationally? Sounds logical.


  5. #65
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Bent and Defoe too similar for me, Carlton has more physicality.
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  6. #66
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Bent and Defoe too similar for me, Carlton has more physicality.
    Bent and Defoe? Not in my mind. Bent must have at least 5 inches on Defoe. That said, Cole probably has about 10 on him.

    But seriously, Bent is a strong guy with good touch, composure and aerial ability. The only thing Cole is better at than Bent is being tall, and Darren can't help that much.
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."


  7. #67
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    Bent and Defoe? Not in my mind. Bent must have at least 5 inches on Defoe. That said, Cole probably has about 10 on him.

    But seriously, Bent is a strong guy with good touch, composure and aerial ability. The only thing Cole is better at than Bent is being tall, and Darren can't help that much.
    Hey, all about opinions the Darren Bent your describing isn't the one I watch, Carlton is a much stronger imposing presence and I think his touch is better then Darren too.

    Anyway it's a little redundant really, which is why I haven't participated in this thread before, because Cole is injured, and there will no doubt be many injuries and form fluctuations before the end of the season. Carlton would be in my squad if fully fit though.

    As would Woodgate, Hargreaves, King and Dyer, but none of those are going to happen.......

  8. #68
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    Yeah way too early to start thinking about the squad but this thread has managed to rather lessen my excitement about the world cup. It is my favourite sporting event outside cricket but it has just reminded me that we are going to have to put up with so much facile England talk. Just want to watch the other teams to be honest.

  9. #69
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Right, so Carrick should be picked because he can pass the ball as well as Gareth Barry, but has none of his other attributes, I see.
    Well we aren't Brazil or Spain we aren't blessed with an abundance or talent here. Carrick passing game can be of use in the WC if Barry gets injured.

    I'm feeling the Beckham option too playing in the centre no doubt. But the funny thing is that Beckham at Milan although he has been playing in the centre of the park, he was playing still positioned close to the touchline last season last i checked in Milan typical 4-3-2-1 formation.


    -------------------------------------------------------Pato---------------------------------------------------------------------

    -----------Ronaldinho---------------------------------------------------------------Seedorf------------------------------


    ------------Ambrosini/Guttuso-----------------Pirlo-----------------------------------------------Beckham-------

    Not as central as you find in 4-4-2 formation. So i dont know...


    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Players can improve, but there is no reason to suggest Carrick might suddenly become a great deal better at tackling between now and the start of the tournament, so it's a pointless hypothesis.
    Me saying if 'Carrick learns to tackle he will be as good as Barry" wasn't to suggest he will learn to tackle between now & the WC, of course he wont. That hypotesis was so show how ccomparable he is to Barry ATM 7 why its a bit OTT to say Barry is better than him in every way.

    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Milner has actually played well, that is what he has offered in greater abundance than Carrick. The fact that Milner has done a better job than any other notable candidates for the position not a reasonable enough suggestion that he should be given a go there internationally? Sounds logical.
    Just like in cricket you know what they say domestic form doesn't always equal international success. You remember before the 2006 WC Sven was talking about King & Carragher probably being options as defensive mid-fielders given they actually did do a good job in that role for their respective clubs in such a role?.

    I'm not convinced about Milner new found versatility as yet. This is basically the first season he is playing in mid-field, run this idea by me at the end of the season, but i'm defiantely going to keeping a close eye of Milner..
    Last edited by aussie; 12-01-2010 at 03:16 PM.

  10. #70
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Hey, all about opinions the Darren Bent your describing isn't the one I watch, Carlton is a much stronger imposing presence and I think his touch is better then Darren too.
    Indeed so. Bent has a horrible, horrible first touch (something he shares with Defoe, as it goes) & his chance to goal ratio is probably pretty shoddy too. Bent has just the one trick (pace), which isn't a bad one to have, but won't be going to the world cup based on that. Behind Cole, Crouch, Heskey & Agbonlahor IMHO.
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  11. #71
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Indeed so. Bent has a horrible, horrible first touch (something he shares with Defoe, as it goes) & his chance to goal ratio is probably pretty shoddy too. Bent has just the one trick (pace), which isn't a bad one to have, but won't be going to the world cup based on that. Behind Cole, Crouch, Heskey & Agbonlahor IMHO.
    Actually Jermain has improved in that respect over the last couple of seasons, still not exactly Lionel Messi, but he's a bit better then a Championship player, which he used to look like technically, nowadays.

  12. #72
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Hey, all about opinions the Darren Bent your describing isn't the one I watch, Carlton is a much stronger imposing presence and I think his touch is better then Darren too.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Indeed so. Bent has a horrible, horrible first touch (something he shares with Defoe, as it goes) & his chance to goal ratio is probably pretty shoddy too. Bent has just the one trick (pace), which isn't a bad one to have, but won't be going to the world cup based on that. Behind Cole, Crouch, Heskey & Agbonlahor IMHO.
    Not necessarily referring to first touch. But touch in general, as in the ability to use the ball at his feet. Cole has a very good first touch, I agree, (comparatively at least) but I don't think he's as consistent following it up.

    As for his finishing ability, when he's been provided good service this season he's been as good as anyone at putting it away. Anyone English at any rate. Sure he's no one-chance-one-goal striker, like Torres, but he's certainly been reliable. Cole's goal to chance ratio is worse, surely, as he's had some incredible misses, alongside his brilliant goals.

    Anyway, I like Cole a lot. And while I've been more than willing to argue the point, the only genuine reason I'd pick Bent ahead of him is fitness. Cole's fitness record has to improve drastically between his eventual comeback and the squad selection.

  13. #73
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Actually Jermain has improved in that respect over the last couple of seasons, still not exactly Lionel Messi, but he's a bit better then a Championship player, which he used to look like technically, nowadays.
    Still not a huge fan, tbh. Sort of striker whose goals come in bursts. Will get 10 in 10 then go twelve without scoring. Would take him in my squad, but that says more about the lack of viable alternatives.

    Rooney
    Defoe
    Heskey
    Crouch

    Nailed on.

  14. #74
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Still not a huge fan, tbh. Sort of striker whose goals come in bursts. Will get 10 in 10 then go twelve without scoring. Would take him in my squad, but that says more about the lack of viable alternatives.

    Rooney
    Defoe
    Heskey
    Crouch

    Nailed on.
    Think you are blinded by that brilliant lilywhite jersey, myself.

    I've been Defoe's biggest critic, but he has improved IMHO, and as you say with no options he's nailed on.

    ^
    Would rather have Agbonlahor then Bent, just not an international player for me, Mr Mxyzptlk.
    Last edited by grecian; 12-01-2010 at 03:35 PM.

  15. #75
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Worth noting that Capello has played Beckham pretty much exclusively in the midfield general role when he's come on. Reckon he could do the job just as well as Carrick if needs be.
    He's certainly more of that role than he is the winger role Aussie seems to think.
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