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India needs to introspect

ret

International Debutant
India crashes out .... I feared something like this happening and that's why I felt India needed to introspect

they didn't play well, got the strategy wrong right from selecting the squad for the WC [thought selectors pulled the gun a bit early], playing 11 to batting order

can't feel sorry for them in the end, they got what they deserved


For the game against SA, may be they could try some of the players who had to sit out in the bench. they should bench Raina, Gambhir, Ishant and Zak. the line up should be something like

- Rohit
- Irfan
- Karthik
- Yuvi
- Yusuf
- Dhoni
- Jadeja
- Praveen
- Bhajji
- RP
- Ojha
 

Smith

Banned
India crashes out .... I feared something like this happening and that's why I felt India needed to introspect

they didn't play well, got the strategy wrong right from selecting the squad for the WC [thought selectors pulled the gun a bit early], playing 11 to batting order

can't feel sorry for them in the end, they got what they deserved


For the game against SA, may be they could try some of the players who had to sit out in the bench. they should bench Raina, Gambhir, Ishant and Zak. the line up should be something like

- Rohit
- Irfan
- Karthik
- Yuvi
- Yusuf
- Dhoni
- Jadeja
- Praveen
- Bhajji
- RP
- Ojha
:huh: That makes the composition look like

Batsman
Bowling allrounder
WK
Batsman
Batting allrounder
WK
Bowling allrounder
Bowler
Bowler
Bowler
Bowler

Not going to address the batting problems anyway that lineup.
 

ret

International Debutant
:huh: That makes the composition look like

Batsman
Bowling allrounder
WK
Batsman
Batting allrounder
WK
Bowling allrounder
Bowler
Bowler
Bowler
Bowler

Not going to address the batting problems anyway that lineup.
I knew someone would say that :p

I guess it's self explanatory, once you see at what positions they are playing, for what, whom they have replaced, what they guys who have been benched have done so far, and the importance of the next game :D
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Tendulkar should have been picked. His assured presence at the top could have countered ENG bouncer tactic & everyone could have batted around him.
 

ret

International Debutant
Tendulkar should have been picked. His assured presence at the top could have countered ENG bouncer tactic & everyone could have batted around him.
yep that's why I said selector pulled the trigger quickly .... guys like Nehra, Mishra and Pandey, who showed good form in IPL could have been considered too

In hindsight, a 11 like the below would have been more useful

- Tendulkar
- Panday
- Rohit
- Yuvraj
- Yusuf
- Karthik
- Irfan
- Mishra
- Nehra
- RP
- Ojha

PS Sehwag is not considered because of his injury
 

Smith

Banned
Tendulkar should have been picked. His assured presence at the top could have countered ENG bouncer tactic & everyone could have batted around him.
Tendulkar has retired from T20 cricket 2 years back. And he is not coming back again. And India have won a World Cup without him. Just two losses, that too one in a tight chase and suddenly we have people irrationally clamouring for massive changes.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Aussie, ret, You can't pick a guy who doesn't want to play! Not that I agree with his stance. He seems to have no problem playing for money in the IPL.
 

ret

International Debutant
Tendulkar has retired from T20 cricket 2 years back. And he is not coming back again. And India have won a World Cup without him. Just two losses, that too one in a tight chase and suddenly we have people irrationally clamouring for massive changes.
did he retire from T20? I guess he would have reconsidered that if cajoled to play

he would have been more useful than some of the guys that we had .... it's like Aus wishing Hayden and Gilly were still available
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Tendulkar has retired from T20 cricket 2 years back. And he is not coming back again. And India have won a World Cup without him. Just two losses, that too one in a tight chase and suddenly we have people irrationally clamouring for massive changes.
I'm not calling for massive changes. Just reiterating what i said before the tournament started, that Tendy should have been picked. I never heard/read him say he retired though, any links?

These two defeats are as significant as AUS achilles heel towards playing spin rearing up again. Teams who play IND in T20s in the future, will surely use their such tactics to keep their aggressive batsmen in check.
 

Smith

Banned
Aussie, ret, You can't pick a guy who doesn't want to play! Not that I agree with his stance. He seems to have no problem playing for money in the IPL.
For him T20Is are not IPL matches. I don't think he really takes the IPL that seriously. Plus who wants to let go of a 1+ Million dollar contract?
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Tendulkar should have been picked. His assured presence at the top could have countered ENG bouncer tactic & everyone could have batted around him.
They should have called Farookh too, Didn't even need to buy his ticket.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Just found out India are out (been that sort of night/day). I don't think a big deal should be made of it, they were a bit sluggish, a bit out of form and lost their best player. Not to mention it's the nature of the shortened format that this can happen. I think major changes will only hurt a growing team more, although I can't disagree with ret's continuous improvement stance as long as it's nothing drastic.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
At times, I don't think we should read too much into a tournament that's only two weeks long, and where one bad match results in an elimination. T20 seems a blink-and-miss style of cricket, with no room for a let-up at all.Raina is no more a #3 in T20, when the same plan works against him twice and claims him cheaply twice.
Dhoni is not exactly better against the same type of bowling.


The point is, confidence and form tend to overcome lots of deficiencies. There is a good chance that he would have been found out at 3 anyways but he was shuffled down, his form went down, his rhythm went out and then suddenly he was back at 3 for the crucial games and looked lost.


Even if Raina had failed at 3, had he been batting at 3 all along, at least it could be put down to inability. Now, it is inability plus incompetent captaincy...
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Dhoni is not exactly better against the same type of bowling.


The point is, confidence and form tend to overcome lots of deficiencies. There is a good chance that he would have been found out at 3 anyways but he was shuffled down, his form went down, his rhythm went out and then suddenly he was back at 3 for the crucial games and looked lost.


Even if Raina had failed at 3, had he been batting at 3 all along, at least it could be put down to inability. Now, it is inability plus incompetent captaincy...
That is no excuse. Raina is no fresh youngster in this team. In fact, he's an established batsman and should make that adjustment. He looked completely out of sorts and then played an out-of-turn shot to get out. Dhoni isn't a technical genius, but he's a lot smarter, although he seemed unusually subdued when he came out to bat- though a rush of wickets can do such a thing.

Frankly, some of the picks in the squad didn't deserve to be there. Ravi Jadeja is a complete misfit in this form of the game, with bat and ball. Pragyan Ojha doesn't add much value apart from his bowling; both Amit Mishra and Yusuf Pathan are better, well-rounded options. Dinesh Karthik scores in bits and pieces, and only one fifty in the IPL, which doesn't inspire any confidence. Rahane and Badrinath were better, while T20 centurion Manish Pandey should have played.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Just found out India are out (been that sort of night/day). I don't think a big deal should be made of it, they were a bit sluggish, a bit out of form and lost their best player. Not to mention it's the nature of the shortened format that this can happen. I think major changes will only hurt a growing team more, although I can't disagree with ret's continuous improvement stance as long as it's nothing drastic.
Unfortunately, there were drastic changes since the last event. Some changes (getting in Raina and Ishant ahead of Robin and Joginder/Sreesanth) were forced, but some others were needless. They had first benched one T20 hero from last season (fine, RP Singh isn't that great, but he didn't deserve to be benched) and then dropped another top T20 player (Irfan has his problems, but he's still one of the best for T20) for a key match. There was also the baffling selection of two left-arm spinners who were nothing special, and added little to their places in the team. While a few problems couldn't be helped, the least they could do is stick to their best tea, but we hardly saw that. The lack of specialist batting options was another factor, as they were reduced to just four at one point of time, but this T20 has thrown up a new weakness of this team- the lack of consistent big shots.
 

ret

International Debutant
one good point for me abt India's exit is that I will be able to follow the rest of the games from a neutral perspective and enjoy good cricket :p
 

ret

International Debutant
Nassir Hussain to Harsha Bhogle in the commentary box after India's exit "No matter what you say in the end it is the technical inadequacy to play the rising ball that cost India"

He summed it up nicely. I wonder if he writes columns.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
So what is Gary Doing in the team apart from playing Poker with rest of his crew ?
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
So what is Gary Doing in the team apart from playing Poker with rest of his crew ?
I dunno.. No one was giving him too much credit when we did well either.


At the moment, he is being a backroom boy, letting all of the spotlight on Dhoni and the rest of the team. When they did well, they were glorified. When they have played poorly (as they have done now), they are being pilloried. I don't understand what the problem with Kirsten is here.... He is being consistent in being out of the spotlight...


And if Dhoni can take the praises, he gotta take the criticisms too. You are being completely unfair here... Plus, if Dhoni's excuse is that as a captain, he can have bad games and tourneys, the same can happen to the coach too.


It is not juz Gary btw, Venky and Robin are there too plus the medical staff.
 

pasag

RTDAS
So what is Gary Doing in the team apart from playing Poker with rest of his crew ?
Most of us don't know, which is fine. Really, the only praise or criticism of Kirsten at this stage should come out of a proper coaching review done by the BCCI.
 

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