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Thread: New Zealand- could they just win it?

  1. #61
    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Is it?
    Indeed. Not laughable at all.
    Although when was the last time Oram actually played an international match?

    When he was in form, he certainly was destructive, but most of the time he has been injured. Morkel on the other hand has been playing internationals, and being as destructive as Oram was at his peak.

    Just to add to SP's analysis.
    Morkel had a bad IPL just like Oram. And Ryder hardly got a chance.

    It's pretty hilarious that all the South African players stats "should" get better, yet all the New Zealand players stats are flattering.

    But, what ever makes you feel better about yourself, I suppose.

  2. #62
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Albie Morkel bats at 8 for SA doesn't he? Also Orams test average is better by far than his FC one. Albie hasn't played a lot of tests yet, so who knows where he'll end up but atm the odds are easliy stacked in favour of Oram.

    If I had to pick one to bat for my life, I'd pick Oram over Albie.
    Albie Morkel comes in when South Africa need a hitter in ODIs. Could be at 5, could be at 9. That's his role, and it doesn't mean he can't do anything else. If you're referring to tests, he does indeed bat at 8. Exactly where Oram would bat for South Africa. If they picked him.

    As test cricket goes, Oram's infinitely more proven than Morkel. I'll stop short of saying he's better, I'd definitely back Morkel to be averaging more than 37 after 31 tests. Were i to choose one to bat for my life, I'd take Morkel on the grounds that Oram may have to retire hurt with an itchy eyebrow.

    It's also starting to feel like quite a while since Oram made runs.
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    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Woo, woo, woo. When arguing with Scaly, don't help him by talking tests when we're talking 20/20.
    Well from the five posts I've seen him make I would guess he doesn't rate too many NZ'ers. And I have no problem with that, but to say a player will get worse is a litlle harsh.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Albie Morkel comes in when South Africa need a hitter in ODIs. Could be at 5, could be at 9. That's his role, and it doesn't mean he can't do anything else. If you're referring to tests, he does indeed bat at 8. Exactly where Oram would bat for South Africa. If they picked him.

    As test cricket goes, Oram's infinitely more proven than Morkel. I'll stop short of saying he's better, I'd definitely back Morkel to be averaging more than 37 after 31 tests. Were i to choose one to bat for my life, I'd take Morkel on the grounds that Oram may have to retire hurt with an itchy eyebrow.

    It's also starting to feel like quite a while since Oram made runs.
    Well since it's hard to compare them in test cricket lets have a look at there ODI stats.

    Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Albie Morkel

    And his 97 was against Zimbabwe, I'll also throw in and say he hasn't even scored a List-A century, so where is he batting for his State.

    http://content.cricinfo.com/newzeala...yer/38062.html

    Oram has a strike-rate which is a lot lower then Morkels, but he has scored 10 more 50's and a 100. But he has also had about 70 more innings. Morkel is probaly a better striker, but Oram is the better batsmen. That I am 100 percent certain of.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Albie Morkel comes in when South Africa need a hitter in ODIs. Could be at 5, could be at 9. That's his role, and it doesn't mean he can't do anything else. If you're referring to tests, he does indeed bat at 8. Exactly where Oram would bat for South Africa. If they picked him.

    As test cricket goes, Oram's infinitely more proven than Morkel. I'll stop short of saying he's better, I'd definitely back Morkel to be averaging more than 37 after 31 tests. Were i to choose one to bat for my life, I'd take Morkel on the grounds that Oram may have to retire hurt with an itchy eyebrow.

    It's also starting to feel like quite a while since Oram made runs.
    Oram would not bat behind Boucher for a start.

    Smith
    DeVilliers
    Amla
    Kallis
    Duminy
    Prince
    Oram
    Boucher
    etc

    SA have a purely awesome allrounder in Kallis to afford to have an allrounder in the top four, so that means Oram would be bumped down for that extra batsman.

    If Albie was picked for NZ, he'd bat at six, I'd be willing to bet he'd manage a Franklin and shuffle down to 8/9 (depending on where Vettori puts himself).

    Franklin has a century in SA and a ridiculously good season with the bat in NZ FC and maybe a good one in England (haven't followed his batting there), I wouldn't bat him any higher than 9 in ours (McCullum 7, Vettori 8)
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  7. #67
    International Vice-Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    NZ may have a good shout in the next T20 WC, but I can't see them winning this one. McCullum's in poor form, Ryder's still yet to prove his immense talent in T20 cricket, Guptill's pretty average, Taylor's got superb talent but is way too inconsistent, Oram's always injured, and the bowling attack is too reliant on Vettori. Mills, Butler, Franklin, O'Brien, Oram, McCullum, Styris and Diamanti are very meh bowlers. They're ok, but I don't think they're good enough to restrict and take consistent wickets, even Jacob Oram, who is normally incredibly economical goes at 9's in T20 cricket.

    They may prove me wrong, and perform well as underdogs, but I can't see them winning it personally. Will be India, Australia or South Africa for mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricinfo
    38.3
    Styris to Pietersen, SIX, wow, what a shot, that is awesome...it's a repeat of his six off Muralitharan at Edgbaston, as he switches his grip and reverse-hits Styris over deep cover (or should that be deep square-leg) for a memorable maximum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cricinfo
    42.6
    Styris to Pietersen, SIX, that's the most extraordinary shot, he switches his grip to that of a left-hander and launches Stryis high over long-off for a might six. That is one of the more incredible shots you'll see

  8. #68
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    You have never seen Guptill bat before have you.

    Guy is currently in top form as is Taylor.

  9. #69
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    If we're talking 20/20 bowling then KP has a point (bar Butler). If he's talking limited overs in general, Mills is world class.

    I don't think we'll win though, we'll make the semis though.

  10. #70
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    Guptill's pretty average
    He is one of the best young ODI batsmen in the world, have you seen him play.He has only played three 20/20INT's but if you saw the last Chappel-Hadlee game you would know how quick he can score. I think he scored 66 of about 32 that night. Guptill will be one of our better batsmen in this world cup.

  11. #71
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    He's the only opener post Richardson that I actualy feel confident will be more than the 35 average types we've been trying to find.

  12. #72
    International Vice-Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    You have never seen Guptill bat before have you.

    Guy is currently in top form as is Taylor.
    I have actually. I saw quite abit of the NZ-India series. I was just never particularly impressed by Guptill. He was decent enough, but I can't see him consistently dominating attacks, although saying that his innings against India at Christchurch was very nice. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I can't see him being one of the leading run scorers in the competition. He'll have a decent enough competition though I reckon.

    Regarding Mills, I was talking about him as a T20 bowler, not an ODi bowler, where I do think he's done very well. He is a handy lower order hitter though, which could come in handy, I'm just not convinced he'll be particularly effective with the ball. Butler could go well though, he certainly seems like a strike bowler. I'm not convinced by his ability to contain early on, but he'll more than likely pick up a few wickets, same with Iain O'Brien. They'll both pick up a few wickets but I can't see either keeping things tight, but I guess with Vettori almost certain to keep the run scoring down to 6 an over from his 4, all you need from the 2 openers is a few wickets.

    I think he Kiwi's will have a decent competition, but I can't honestly see them winning it, the Semi Finals is probably the best they can hope for I think, same with England. They could both be real contenders in the next one though!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    I have actually. I saw quite abit of the NZ-India series. I was just never particularly impressed by Guptill. He was decent enough, but I can't see him consistently dominating attacks, although saying that his innings against India at Christchurch was very nice. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I can't see him being one of the leading run scorers in the competition. He'll have a decent enough competition though I reckon.

    Regarding Mills, I was talking about him as a T20 bowler, not an ODi bowler, where I do think he's done very well. He is a handy lower order hitter though, which could come in handy, I'm just not convinced he'll be particularly effective with the ball. Butler could go well though, he certainly seems like a strike bowler. I'm not convinced by his ability to contain early on, but he'll more than likely pick up a few wickets, same with Iain O'Brien. They'll both pick up a few wickets but I can't see either keeping things tight, but I guess with Vettori almost certain to keep the run scoring down to 6 an over from his 4, all you need from the 2 openers is a few wickets.

    I think he Kiwi's will have a decent competition, but I can't honestly see them winning it, the Semi Finals is probably the best they can hope for I think, same with England. They could both be real contenders in the next one though!
    Personally think we'll make it to the semis and thats it. The thread was a pleasant surprise though.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    NZ may have a good shout in the next T20 WC, but I can't see them winning this one. McCullum's in poor form, Ryder's still yet to prove his immense talent in T20 cricket, Guptill's pretty average, Taylor's got superb talent but is way too inconsistent....
    McCullum.... Out of form for most of the IPL, but came into form at the end right in time for the WC.
    Ryder.... Wasn't really given a chance in the Bangalore side. Was always in and out, always playing for his place in the side. Got a couple of jaffas first up.
    Guptil.... In ominous form. 61(42) and 45(42) in the WC warm-ups.
    Taylor.... Got into form near the end of the IPL, just like McCullum. 81(33), 46(50), 25(12), 1(4), 17*(12) in his last 5 isn't exactly inconsistent. And add to that 74(36) today.

    It's a better time as any.

  15. #75
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    wierd seeing those scores. A few years ago that would be called impossible. Well okay not impossible, but tricky.

    20/20 is bringing some pretty interesting strike rates in.

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