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Thread: A pessimistic look at Australia's WC chances

  1. #91
    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Haha SR of 85 at least in the 2000s? Well lets see what batsman don't have that wonderful mark...

    (From 1 Jan 2000 vs. top 8)

    Ponting
    Tendulkar
    Kallis
    Yousuf
    Jayawardene
    Dravid
    Sangakkara
    Gibbs
    Gayle
    Hayden
    Atapattu
    Ganguly
    Inzamam
    Chanderpaul
    Fleming
    Clarke
    Malik
    Younis
    Smith
    Sarwan
    Martyn
    Boucher
    Astle
    Razzaq
    Trescothick
    Collingwood
    Lara
    McMillan
    Styris
    Arnold
    Dippenaar
    Dilshan
    Flower
    Bevan
    McCullum
    Flower
    Kirsten
    Bell
    Vincent
    AB

    Why out of players with more than 2000 runs since the year 2000:

    Jayasuriya with an average of 35.88 SR 89.65
    Gilly 34.29 SR 99.05
    Yuvraj 36.40 SR 86.07
    Sehwag 34.11 SR 100.11
    Symonds 39.47 SR 93.67
    Dhoni 46.96 SR 89.10
    KP 46.46 SR 87.86
    Afridi 21.11 SR 110.06
    Flintoff 31.43 SR 88.36

    So out of 50 batsman, 9 have a SR of 85+ since 2000.

    Okay but lets get this back onto Clarke! Lets see who has a lower SR than him for some context. (vs. top8 still)

    Kallis
    MoYo
    Jayawardene
    Dravid
    Sangakkara
    Atapattu
    Ganguly
    Inzi
    Chanderpaul
    Fleming
    Malik
    Khan
    Sarwan
    Martyn
    Astle
    Collingwood
    Lara
    McMillan
    Styris
    Arnold
    Dippenaar
    Flower
    Bevan
    Flower (G)
    Kirsten
    Bell
    Vincent

    Which would make Clarke the 23rd best Striker out of the 50 with 2000+ runs since 2000. Pfft but who cares if he doesn't get the runs, what about his average? Who has it better than 42.55?

    Ponting
    Tendulkar
    Kallis
    Hayden
    Chanderpaul (by .01)
    Dhoni
    KP
    Hussey
    Bevan

    So 10th best in terms of average? Oh wow. And what was that 23rd in SR? So you're trying to tell me he actually is quite a good ODI batsman? And in the 2000's only 10-15 batsman have been better?

    No Precam's right. Rubbish him.
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  2. #92
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    Sorry. I forgot my own analysis earlier that stated between 2000 and 2005, SR went up by about 10 points.

    Can you please workout the SRs since 2005? Thanks.

  3. #93
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    90 should be the benchmark SR for a batsman of the 90s, unless he is compensating it with matchwinning solid innings. Anyway, his SR should NOT be lower than 85 (ER - 5.1). Now how many times has Clarke done that in his career?
    Yo get away from the computer.

    Their is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Clarke's ODI batting since the 2007 WC as you are claiming. Any argument is just a baseless stats argument & i'm ready to discredit any stats you may put forward on the matter...bullet

  4. #94
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Yo get away from the computer.

    Their is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Clarke's ODI batting since the 2007 WC as you are claiming. Any argument is just a baseless stats argument & i'm ready to discredit any stats you may put forward on the matter...bullet
    Putting aside stats if you'd like, anyone that's watched most of his games since then, as I have, will tell you how bad he's been. He gets bogged down, struggles to rotate the strike and has a genuine inability to hit big when the situation requires it, not to mention he takes ages to get in and then gets out, putting pressure on everyone else to score quickly to post reasonable totals. I know he's the golden boy and his character states he should be a big hitter and at the forefront of limited overs cricket, but looks can be deceiving. He should be dropped from both formats and he'll come back a much better batsman for it.
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  5. #95
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    So, as an aside, we've pretty much just accepted that Smith is Precam and are letting him stick around on a multi? Shouldn't play the man rather than the post, but when such utter tosh is being posted by someone who's actually been banned and seriously damaged the atmosphere of the forum, it's a temptation that's hard to resist.

    I've made my feelings on Clarke as an ODI batsman pretty clear in the past. Suffice to say that I think his place is properly secure.
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  6. #96
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Putting aside stats if you'd like, anyone that's watched most of his games since then, as I have, will tell you how bad he's been. He gets bogged down, struggles to rotate the strike and has a genuine inability to hit big when the situation requires it, not to mention he takes ages to get in and then gets out, putting pressure on everyone else to score quickly to post reasonable totals. I know he's the golden boy and his character states he should be a big hitter and at the forefront of limited overs cricket, but looks can be deceiving. He should be dropped from both formats and he'll come back a much better batsman for it.
    What???. This is the same Clarke who in UAE vs PAK was the most free-flowing batsman on either side, scored that brillinat hundred in IND. Plus remember Clarke due to the injury woes recently was forced to open the batting & didn't disgrace himself.

    You are right to a point that since he has gone down to # 4 he has become a bit more circumspect in his batting. But even in the early days when he used to bat @ 7 & play a finisher role - Clarke was never a big hitter. He would score quickly yea, but not 50 of 30 balls - but a 50 of 40 mixed with brilliant running & a few boundaries.

    Given the ODI side has just lost the power-hitting force of Symo, Clarke assuring presence @ 4 is very important.

  7. #97
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    BUt he duznt hit sixez!!!111

  8. #98
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerfurball View Post
    but he duznt hit sixez!!!111

  9. #99
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    What???. This is the same Clarke who in UAE vs PAK was the most free-flowing batsman on either side, scored that brillinat hundred in IND. Plus remember Clarke due to the injury woes recently was forced to open the batting & didn't disgrace himself.

    You are right to a point that since he has gone down to # 4 he has become a bit more circumspect in his batting. But even in the early days when he used to bat @ 7 & play a finisher role - Clarke was never a big hitter. He would score quickly yea, but not 50 of 30 balls - but a 50 of 40 mixed with brilliant running & a few boundaries.

    Given the ODI side has just lost the power-hitting force of Symo, Clarke assuring presence @ 4 is very important.
    It's not important, it's an overrated role that many others can play (not to mention he's not very good at it). I don't know what you've been watching if you call him free flowing. He stutters around, digs himself into a long and painful whole and gets out. It's horrible to watch and it's horrible for the side. It's the story of how far his limited overs game has fallen. All you have to do is watch him to see. Sometimes I think people are blinded by the personality and the colour of his hair, tbh.
    Last edited by pasag; 21-06-2009 at 06:27 PM.

  10. #100
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    It's not important, it's an overrated role that many others can play (not to mention he's not very good at it). I don't know what you've been watching if you call him free flowing. He stutters around, digs himself into a long and painful whole and gets out. It's horrible to watch and it's horrible for the side. It's the story of how far his limited overs game has fallen. All you have to do is watch him to see. Sometimes I think people are blinded by the personality and the colour of his hair, tbh.
    C'mon mate, cut him some slack, Clarke has had one bad season, where he has struggled to score quickly, but even then he scored runs when others have generally failed to do so, Clarke through out his career hasn't had much of slump in form, its only been in the last season where he has had lean trot, and I think he atleast deserves a chance to resurrect things before he is shown the door.

    As I said before, if a guy was breathing down his neck in order to get selected, then it would make sense to drop him, but in the present scenario that certainly isn't the case, and therefore dropping a proven campaigner like him, in favor of some underachiving batsman is a bit silly.

  11. #101
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pup11 View Post
    C'mon mate, cut him some slack, Clarke has had one bad season, where he has struggled to score quickly, but even then he scored runs when others have generally failed to do so, Clarke through out his career hasn't had much of slump in form, its only been in the last season where he has had lean trot, and I think he atleast deserves a chance to resurrect things before he is shown the door.

    As I said before, if a guy was breathing down his neck in order to get selected, then it would make sense to drop him, but in the present scenario that certainly isn't the case, and therefore dropping a proven campaigner like him, in favor of some underachiving batsman is a bit silly.
    It's hardly silly, it's how cricket works. For everyone aside for Michael Clarke, that is. If this was anyone else I guarantee you we wouldn't even be having this discussion, he'd have been long gone. It's not a matter of telling him to do better, it's a matter of him working on his game in the lower levels and coming back a better player for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    So, as an aside, we've pretty much just accepted that Smith is Precam and are letting him stick around on a multi? Shouldn't play the man rather than the post, but when such utter tosh is being posted by someone who's actually been banned and seriously damaged the atmosphere of the forum, it's a temptation that's hard to resist.

    I've made my feelings on Clarke as an ODI batsman pretty clear in the past. Suffice to say that I think his place is properly secure.
    Could you please clarify the utter tosh I've been posting here around.

    As for the rest, I shall ignore them.

    As to the topic, Clarke's slow scoring has been one of the reasons why Australia have not been able to post huge totals as it used to, especially in the last 2 years since WC 07.

    Clarke since WC 2007 (Series summary)

    Code:
    Series		Season	 Mat  	 Runs 	 Avg 	 SR 	Winner	 	Verdict 
    Aus-in-India	2007-08	 7 	 222 	 37 	 86 	Australia	Average
    Chappell-Hadlee	2007-08	 3 	 55 	 28 	 62 	Australia	Poor
    CB series	2007-08	 10 	 314 	 39 	 70 	India		Mediocre
    Aus-in-WI	2008	 5 	 117 	 29 	 57 	Australia	Very poor
    Bangla-in-Aus	2008	 3 	 40 	 13 	 38 	Australia	Disaster
    SA-in-Aus	2008-09	 2 	 19 	 10 	 45 	SA		Disaster
    Chappell-Hadlee	2008-09	 4 	 188 	 47 	 75 	Drawn		Good
    Aus-in-SA	2008-09	 5 	 157 	 31 	 80 	SA		Poor
    Aus-vs-Pak	2009	 5 	 235 	 78 	 70 	Australia	Good
    That's 2 good series out of 9 he has played. The rest he has all been poor-very-poor and disaster. I'd believe that Australia has definitely better players than guys who contribute in every 2 series out of 9 they play.

  13. #103
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    Could you please clarify the utter tosh I've been posting here around.

    As for the rest, I shall ignore them.

    As to the topic, Clarke's slow scoring has been one of the reasons why Australia have not been able to post huge totals as it used to, especially in the last 2 years since WC 07.

    Clarke since WC 2007 (Series summary)

    Code:
    Series		Season	 Mat  	 Runs 	 Avg 	 SR 	Winner	 	Verdict 
    Aus-in-India	2007-08	 7 	 222 	 37 	 86 	Australia	Average
    Chappell-Hadlee	2007-08	 3 	 55 	 28 	 62 	Australia	Poor
    CB series	2007-08	 10 	 314 	 39 	 70 	India		Mediocre
    Aus-in-WI	2008	 5 	 117 	 29 	 57 	Australia	Very poor
    Bangla-in-Aus	2008	 3 	 40 	 13 	 38 	Australia	Disaster
    SA-in-Aus	2008-09	 2 	 19 	 10 	 45 	SA		Disaster
    Chappell-Hadlee	2008-09	 4 	 188 	 47 	 75 	Drawn		Good
    Aus-in-SA	2008-09	 5 	 157 	 31 	 80 	SA		Poor
    Aus-vs-Pak	2009	 5 	 235 	 78 	 70 	Australia	Good
    That's 2 good series out of 9 he has played. The rest he has all been poor-very-poor and disaster. I'd believe that Australia has definitely better players than guys who contribute in every 2 series out of 9 they play.
    **** off Precam.

  14. #104
    Hall of Fame Member superkingdave's Avatar
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    Since this one worked so well, would love for Gelman to start a' A pessimistic look at Australia's Ashes Chances' thread now.
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