The England Thread

[GIMH]

Ignoring the archetypal football fan Crouch hater brigade on here (sorry but most football fans are stupid - they'd sooner have a slow 2 foot 3 weakling with good skills playing than someone that'll give any defense a problem but is gormless with it - then they'll boo him whenever he gets the ball), I don't really see the point in England playing 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 systems - England players aren't smart enough to adapt to new systems in a short space of time and it'll just result in some shambolic mess for the first game which will then mean a hasty, messy retreat back to 4-4-2.

                Robinson

Neville    Terry       Rio     A Cole

J Cole    Lampard    Gerrard   Downing

           Owen       Crouch

I suppose Rooney never drops deep, and plays alongside Owen, rather than dropping off him?

Gerrard/Cole in the hole would not mean a particularly different system than having Rooney up front with Owen

But as I attend 50 football matches a year, I guess I'm stupid, seems as football fans are stupid

[GIMH]

Oh and the fact that Carragher has been the best defender in England this season, and probably the second best last season, should give him a place in the team ahead of Ferdinand. It probably won't, but there you go, that's my opinion

[Scaly piscine]

I suppose Rooney never drops deep, and plays alongside Owen, rather than dropping off him?

Gerrard/Cole in the hole would not mean a particularly different system than having Rooney up front with Owen

But as I attend 50 football matches a year, I guess I'm stupid, seems as football fans are stupid

I said 'most football fans are stupid'

Gerrard isn't going to be anywhere near as effective as Rooney up front. England will have little or no attacking threat with your team unless they get in front and can counter attack so players have some space to play the ball about (see CDMs for example over the past few seasons, it all looks good against a crap side in disarray, but put them up against a well organised two banks of four that near every side in the World Cup can provide and they struggle badly).

Since the onus will be on England to attack in the first two group games at least I think they need to have more of a threat than one proven goalscorer who won't see the ball all game anyway, two players on the wing who tend to cut infield a lot and will hardly ever get around and behind the defense, so you're basically relying on an exceptional pin point pass, very good long range strike or something else that's exceptional (including exceptionally bad like a keeper error etc.). The only team I'd say your sort of side is viable against is Brazil - one where the onus is shifted and 0-0 is relatively good.

[GIMH]

Okay, my error with the "stupid" comment

Still, I don't think a team with Gerrard, Lampard, Joe Cole, and Michael Owen is playing for a nil-nil.

Gerrard and Crouch play for the same team, and Gerrard has about twice as many goals as Crouch does this season

Gerrard's goals come from the same area as Rooney's

In an ideal world it's not where you want him playing, but he's not wasted, and you have to make the best of what you have, and I believe Gerrard playing off Michael Owen's shoulder, like Rooney does, would be a more viable option than playing Crouch, who would perhaps still be best utilised a late substitute to unnerve defences

My argument is basically that the way Rooney plays means we often play 4-4-1-1 anyway, Gerrard brings different talents to the table to Rooney without doubt, but he's a better option than Crouch, I believe.

Since the onus will be on England to attack in the first two group games at least I think they need to have more of a threat than one proven goalscorer who won't see the ball all game anyway

Some might argue that Gerrard and Lampard, with 40+ goals between them this season, are proven goalscorers, and you can bet they will certainly see a lot of the ball.

I hear what you are saying - but I disagree

[DanielFullard]

Its frightening how much we lack a back up to Rooney and Owen. Is there one player we could call on to lead the line who you would have confidence in? Theres no-one for me. In fact its scary. Crouch must be in the squad but he is still got a lot to prove and is as often bad as he is good. Defoe has been going backwards. Bent is not international class either.

If Rooney is out who will our four strikers be....

Owen, Crouch, Bent, Defoe??????

We can't win the world cup with that front line.

The suggestion of having a midfield player doing Rooneys job is a good idea. Scholesy would have been the ideal choice but obvsiouly that can't be.

[Scaly piscine]

With Owen as the only forward and no way of winning aerial balls up front then Lampard and Gerrard will struggle to find space especially with Beckham and J Cole not giving England much width and so not spreading the opponents' defense out across the pitch.

Teams will just flood the midfield and it'll be very difficult for England to pass their way through like they'd have to with that team, that sort of play isn't to England's strength either.

[BoyBrumby]

From the beeb's website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...nd/4966604.stm

More than the one break if what he says is true. I think we should start planning for a WC without the boy wonder.

[Barney Rubble]

Get a bet on Crouch to net the winner in the final.

What? A man can dream.

[superkingdave]

I know its not really the time, but about the only thing i found amusing about the Rooney injury was that I saw his uncle on tv a couple of weeks ago boasting about how he stood to pick up about 50K when Rooney played in the 06 WC as a result of a bet he made years back.

[BoyBrumby]

I know its not really the time, but about the only thing i found amusing about the Rooney injury was that I saw his uncle on tv a couple of weeks ago boasting about how he stood to pick up about 50K when Rooney played in the 06 WC as a result of a bet he made years back.

Typical govt bean-counter!

Actually, doesn't Chris Kirkland's dad stand to pocket £10k if he's ever not injured for long enough to make his debut for England too? What's the betting (ha!) Mr William Hill never has to stump that one up?!

[Pothas]

Oh and the fact that Carragher has been the best defender in England this season, and probably the second best last season, should give him a place in the team ahead of Ferdinand. It probably won't, but there you go, that's my opinion

John Terry is a superior player to Carragher. Charragher is far more reliable than Ferdinand though that is true

[Pothas]

Okay, my error with the "stupid" comment

Still, I don't think a team with Gerrard, Lampard, Joe Cole, and Michael Owen is playing for a nil-nil.

Gerrard and Crouch play for the same team, and Gerrard has about twice as many goals as Crouch does this season

Gerrard's goals come from the same area as Rooney's

In an ideal world it's not where you want him playing, but he's not wasted, and you have to make the best of what you have, and I believe Gerrard playing off Michael Owen's shoulder, like Rooney does, would be a more viable option than playing Crouch, who would perhaps still be best utilised a late substitute to unnerve defences

My argument is basically that the way Rooney plays means we often play 4-4-1-1 anyway, Gerrard brings different talents to the table to Rooney without doubt, but he's a better option than Crouch, I believe.



Some might argue that Gerrard and Lampard, with 40+ goals between them this season, are proven goalscorers, and you can bet they will certainly see a lot of the ball.

I hear what you are saying - but I disagree

Rooney often recieves the ball with his back to goal and playing in that position Gerrard will have to do the same and this does not suit his style of play at all. I would go for Joe Cole in that position if they are to try and replicate the Rooney postion which i think is unwise anyway.

[aussie]

From the beeb's website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...nd/4966604.stm

More than the one break if what he says is true. I think we should start planning for a WC without the boy wonder.

ah so frustrating, it messes up everything for England, in cricket where Hayden said the cricket team is overly dependent on Freddie some people may want to say that about the football team with Rooney.

Even without him England have enough quality players to get insparation & do well, but obviously hopes of winning have gotten a MAJOR blow.

[aussie]

Some might argue that Gerrard and Lampard, with 40+ goals between them this season, are proven goalscorers, and you can bet they will certainly see a lot of the ball.

I hear what you are saying - but I disagree

yea i disagree as well, i would go for either Lampard or Gerrard going foward.

Overall on current form presuming we have no Rooney, i would go for this XI in a 4-5-1 with defenders Neville/Terry/A Cole a must Campbell/Terry can battle for the other central defenisive position, Carrick has to play now he will do the holding role you will have Beckham & Joe on the wings & Lampard & Gerrard bursting through with Owen the only striker. Really that would be much safer & its still a powerful look without Rooney no doubt...

Robinson

Neville Terry Campbell A Cole

Carrick
Beckham J Cole

Lampard Gerrard

Owen

[marc71178]

Actually, doesn't Chris Kirkland's dad stand to pocket £10k if he's ever not injured for long enough to make his debut for England too? What's the betting (ha!) Mr William Hill never has to stump that one up?!

More importantly, CCFC get £250k if he's still at Liverpool when it happens (and £250k if he plays 20 First team games - currently stuck on 19)