Originally posted by THE MINGSTER
What the hell you on huh?
What Test series? Marshall has not gotten a century in 69 first class innings IN NZ CONDITIONS. Enough said.
If he is so good as you put it, why hasn't he continued that 40* form to now? He has done nothing in the 2 to 3 years since that South African tour.
Jones can bat anywhere in the top 4. I have seen him bat at 4 and he did well.
If McMillan was injured before a Test match, wouldn't that jst call up another player? Or did you not think of that?
They don't need to force Vincent down the order. Jones at 3 and Fleming at his usual at 4 and everyone down one. Simple isn't it?
If he was named in the squad, he wouldn't start anyway. Wouldn't it be better for him to pile on the runs? It would just stop his form.
He isn't a 3. This is the first time he has batted there. He is an opener. Wow, so you have 'great batting cover ability' if you can cover two positions? Wahey....
That's a very dumb thing to say. So if you have one crash hot season you should play them straight away?
Look at the Aussies, Katich, Love have been consistent over a number of seasons before they have been selected. Jones has been very consistent over the last 3 years. He deserves it, Bracewell's words on him were very good.
What do you mean tried and true? Tuffey has been the best for us in Tests over the last 18 months and has to be there. Oram has done nothing wrong. Butler was brilliant for us in Mohali.
To be selected they have to be consistent, and that is what Bracewell is trying to enforce into this new culture.
And by the way, Franklin is the ****.
seems I may have struck a nerve and furthermore I don't like the condescending & personal tone of your response! I would thank you to keep such comments to yourself in future - or not to respond at all if you can not refrain from doing so in what is basically a difference of selection ideologies regarding 2 players / positions re Jones & Cairns....... :!(
however be that as it may........
I was referring to Cairns as replacing Astle from the Test series in India, as this is effectively the only change to the squad........
I recognise that Marshall's domestic form has not been spectacular since RSA, however I am saying that regardless of that he was selected for the ODI series in Pakistan where he succeeded & as such is the current form batsman against this team. Since he has not played any further domestic cricket as they have only just returned from Pakistan, so that arguement is somewhat redundant. I was further highlighting that while limited, he is a known quantity at International level so far as his temperament etc are concerned - hence my preference for him as opposed to Jones & McIntosh..........
So Jones can bat in the top 4 - what I was questioning was his style of play which appears to be fairly defensive from other comments I have read - and I question the roles he could play as batting cover - hence the reference to moving Vincent who has a more 'user friendly' style & greater experience batting with these players..........
I was using McMillan as an example as he is the lowest specialist batsman in the lineup, but why would they call in another player - isn't that what batting cover is meant to do in a squad & wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the original selection???????????
When was the last time Fleming batted at 4 in Tests???????? He's been at no3 for as long as I can remember so how can 4 be his usual spot when Astle bats there in Tests?????
IMO part of stepping up to International level is being blooded into the squad set up, touring etc, once his credentials as a batsman are established so far as selection goes. This then becomes as important as form etc, particularly on Away Tours (although I do realise that this series is at Home, as is the next one)....
Although this may be his 1st season not as an opener, from what I have read I was primarily referring to his style of play which does not seem to be as defensive as Jones so far as application to different roles as batting cover.........
37 matches is a bit more than 1 season - started in 98/99 so that makes it approaching 5 or more. Last year may have been his most productive but there have been signs of continuous improvement from what I have read........
Furthermore at no time did I say to play them after 1 crash hot season - I said I believed they needed to be introduced sooner rather than later while they were in form, as opposed to waiting for several seasons to evaluate them. Vettori made his intro with very little F/C, as did Lee for OZ, & the sub continent has a habit of this.......
Fine for the Aussies - they have had a very settled batting lineup with consistant form. However they also introduce players early to the International arena to see how they go and give them some experience, particularly in ODIs. They develop a pool of players that they can draw upon for either form of the game whether they require batsmen or bowlers.
Bracewell's comments are good, but apart from perhaps inducing warm fuzzys they ultimately mean nothing when push comes to shove. Team & selection loyalty is all well & good to a certain point, but such policy has not inspired a lot of confidence with previous squad selections, particularly ODIs. Eg if McIntosh / Nichol had scored a dominating double ton against the Pakistanis, then I'm sure they would have made room for him in the squad, probably at Jones' expence.
I agree with your summation regarding Tuffey, Oram & Butler - however I was referring to the selectors repeatedly falling back to Wiseman as the other spinning option, and how they are intent to rush Cairns back into either squad as soon as he looks fit regardless of form.
Similarly I have previously expanded that train of thought in other threads regarding the batting cover, and how the likes of Sinclair & Horne were the almost perpetual cover selections until Jones went to SRL. Part of my ongoing criticism of the selectors has been that NZ has a very thin pool of resources so far as experience / exposure goes at international level, particularly where batsman are concerned. This is aligned to my criticism of their selecting only 4 specialist batsmen in ODI teams.
Cairns' selection on his current form defeats your arguement regarding Bracewell enforcing consistency.........
Oh give it a break - he's 23 & with the ball got a F/C average of 26, SR of 52 & economy rate of under 3. He made his Test debut as a 20 yr old V Pakistan last time they were here & his figures are better than his F/C stats. So he 'failed' in the VB
series in a type of game he is not best suited for - so what that makes him no worse than a player like Richardson who is not suited to ODIs. I also think it is a bit soon to be writing off someone who is only 23!!!!!!